Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: DFNewb on December 08, 2018, 02:45:09 pm

I mean the 2 countries are extremely different in history, culture, etc.

Hence the comparison.

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France has had 4 or 5 revolutions in the last 300 years.

(Still to be proven.)

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The closest thing the UK has had is the Irish republic stuff.

You're narrowly excluding the ECW and the Glorious Revolution and Jacobin uprisings by that particular bracketing, I note.

In strictly the last three-hundred years (and ignoring the various Irish instances, as you dismissed them) someone thought there was revolution, leading to the Peterloo Massacre. There was the Scottish Radical War. Riots arise from the Second Reform Bill, which (amongst other things) made Bristol a separatist state, more or less, for three days. The Chartists arguably ultimately succeeded in political revolution that spates of violence to it. The Suffragettes? The Jarrow Crusade, varioys General Strikes and Miners' Strikes? The Pentrich Rising was instigated by a government plant (not the first or last) and who can forget the Luddites.

If you want to use the Irish instances as benchmarks for successful British revolution/separatism, consider the span of similar trouble in India (up to Partition, perhaps as far back as the Mutiny), with some other colonial happenings (e.g. Second Maroon War) definitely approaching that level of open rebellion as scaled to province. I'm told that something happened between 1765 and 1783 in some insignificant set of colonies that we're never heard of since.

Do you want to count small-scale rebellions? At least as important as those French riots you listed, to those involved.

If you want to look at radical changes to the British Isles, alone, and don't feel like including the Industrial Revolution and Information Revolutions as too amorphous and not (directly/overtly) changing the political scene, consider the "thank you, but goodbye (for now)" to Churchill's wartime government and voting in of the Universal Healthcare in 1945 (and huge rollbacks and re-revolution by the rich under Thatcherism).


There's a rich history to British insurrection, but maybe the difference is partly down to JFK's famous quote: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Quote from: Powder Miner on December 08, 2018, 03:05:35 pm

Quote from: Cathar on December 08, 2018, 02:59:48 pm

Chairman : It's hard to say they ever were fascist. They are not as extreme as the Camelot Du Roy, for exemple...
They are what a far right putschist would look like after the government knocks their teeth out. If you want a good idea of what they want, or what a FN ruled france would look like, you might try to read about Vichy government

Haha, oh man, comparing FN to Petain -- THAT is a spicy take. I definitely see what you mean though, the kind of values set Petain was pushing.

Her niece is not called Marion-Maréchal for nothing, you know

Quote from: ChairmanPoo on December 08, 2018, 03:15:35 pm

*shrug*
Really, I see very little difference and therefore make little distinction between authoritarian ultraconservative far right and fascism, not least because there seems to be a two-way connection between the two.

Fair enough. The distinction between extreme, antisemitic morale authoritarianism and fascism is slim, but hey that's where we're at. I'm just saying they are not even the worst of the bunch, which is why I see "pupular uprisings" in Paris with an mountain of salt, especially when you see the violent ones carrying national flags.

Also, I followed the stream. That shit is gold. You see cops in yellow vests, and at some point you hear a discussion where a guy warns the film maker, that the royalists are disguising themselves as antifas to break into buildings. Gold.

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Chairman :

The FN try to distance itself from its fascistic roots, but even tho this is not the issue.

I don't have first hand knowledge of FN, but my general impression is that ALL the alt-right are pretending not to be fascist (but they totally are). They switch their most controversial stuff into code and avoid the most common tropes (eg: pandering past fascist regimes) but the core is there, even if the exact phrasing has changed.

Quote from: DFNewb on December 08, 2018, 02:31:34 pm

Oh that's the UK bro, this thread is about France.

To which I explicitly compared to the UK, including the obvious "2011 London Riots" and the Fuel protests (explicitly compared against the French situation.

Maybe I didn't include enough words to explain this, though.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Why does this have to be this way
Tho I'm not really phased by the perspective of banning someone who wishes harm to my country, I don't want to bother toady for that kind of BS. Seriously it's not worth it. Especially when I'm vindicated at the end of the day. 

Democracy wins again, everyone go home or is behind bars explaining the struggle of poor people to men in blue, and I am extremely relieved. Internet trolls don't really phase me at this point

Quote from: Dunamisdeos on December 08, 2018, 01:58:56 pm

I choked on my water laughing at this are you trying to injure me sir with your jokesmithing.

You were not the target of my ire but I have a habit of hamfisting things

Quote from: Cathar on December 08, 2018, 01:32:15 pm

OMG I always wanted to meet a nigerian prince, I hope he's not a clone

Enjoy him while he lasts. I think that he's due to end up in the forum roll of honor after this daring raid. See, I think he was largely enduring because he kept to the lower boards.... I mean, the lower ...lower boards...  and getting more visibility in GD didnt really help his cause :p

La nuit, tous les chats sont gris. Unless they're wearing retroreflective yellow, I suppose.

From here on the sidelines, it looks more like the 2011 London riots (a single point of contention boiled over, sparking up othe edge issues that caused it to be taken up a bit by a few alternate causes but ultimately dominated by "I like rioting, I do!" copycats) than even the 1990 Poll Tax Riots (closest thing to a revolution). Cannot even be compared to the 2000-2007 fuel protests (ideologically closest to the French situation, at the start) which arguably contributed to the momentum that led to the handover to the ConDems in 2010, but wasn't really revolutionary.

Not that I think my comment will help this thread, but I'm hoping it'll keep the average quality up. And be ignored.