Bay 12 Games Forum

What people take issue with is the way Aryon is flamebaiting DF fans.  His marketing (if we're going to call it that - the game is likely to be freeware) is decidedly anti-DF, pandering to this "hurrr DF is too hard and complex, Toady needs to make his games consoletard-friendly" mentality that riles up the smart guys.

Wait what? Where? When? Aryon has been excessively polite so far (and I'm following the SA thread, yes). What's your problem people?

That file is already removed from my archive.

The reason people are getting it back is that they're merging the folders instead of replacing it.
Since I don't have a graphics_example file in mine, it just keeps the one they already have.

If you DELETE the raw folder and REPLACE it with mine, you shouldn't have any of those problems.

Include an empty example.txt in your pack 

Probably one of the more interesting features in 0.1 is a basic stock manager. You can define minimums for item types and the manager will distribute jobs to your workshops in an attempt to fulfill those minimums. Other than that I'm putting in basic stuff required for it to be playable like combat, hunger and thirst, random groups of monsters that attack your settlement (no real sieges yet).

Basically 0.1 is going to be in a state that you can designate farm plots and stockpiles, chop down trees for walls and workshops, get a basic economy running (without you having to keep ordering up basic necessities every now and then) and station military squads to defend your settlement from roving monsters.

I'm hoping to get this done in around 2 weeks, but that's not a definite schedule so don't lynch me if it slips a bit, I don't want to start promising things prematurely. Work and life in general means I don't have much time to work on this.

There's a lot of little things to do but I'm not going to bother listing each point on my list. I've already got things planned a few versions out, there's a lot of nice things upcoming.

Also all the talk about if this is going to be "just a df clone" or something else, it's definitely something else. I have my own plans and what I want out of this is not df with a better interface, Goblin Camp is going to be it's own game.

Also, I have a little german shepherd puppy...

If you all really had that much issue with the UI, why not create a post about what is your problem with the UI, or what your new people found insurmountable with it.

Here

Thank you, Urist, for a demonstration how you can disagree while staying polite.

I wish people stopped using Aplha as an argument - Dwarf Fortress is likely to stay Alpha for another decade or two and even then won't ever be "complete". The Alpha argument would make sense if the final version were half a year in the future, but here it really has no merit.

Anyway, as for the combat. There much, much more than archery broken. Sure the combat works if by "works" you mean "people kill each other". But when you look at it closely, the new material system brought severe imbalances. Blunt weapons are useless, creatures happily use mangled limbs, to kill anyone you usually have to convert him to a bloody mess, some creatures can't be killed at all, all materials are terribly, terribly wrong and if you download a mod that fixes the raw values, it only reveals the system has a severe flaw where a stronger material always penetrates a weaker one, and a weaker material never penetrates a stonger one. There's no workaround for this, even if you mod like hell. Sure, you could argue these are all details, but Dwarf Fortress is all about details and I'd say that details of combat are much more important than the issue of miners destroying too much ore because they are thirsty.

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Creatures unkillable by normal means would actually be a nice gameplay element if the game gave you tools to handle it. Right now, you can't really order individual dwarves to eg. lure the creature into a trap. You can't kill it by catapults. You can't organize a group of vigilantes with a giant net, and even if you can build a structure above the creature to kill it with cave-in, the game fights back against you with job cancellations. In other words, to kill an unkillable beast you must micromanage the hell out of the game, be prepared in advance, hope for the best, and even there's a huge chance you won't succeed and that the beast will ruin a game. If you are not a very experienced player, you can only watch how the creature kills your dwarves one by one. That fulfills my definition of a bug, not a feature.

But see above - unkillable beast are just one part of the horrible unbalanced mess called combat.


EDIT: I have the same gripe against "poisonous vapours". There's absolutelly no way to protect oneself against these. Anyone you send against a creature with poisonous vapours is as good as dead, and there's absolutelly no tools to handle it. This is what I call a bug... or a horrible, horrible design decision.

Ohh you cant use some arrow's. Big deal... Just pour magma on it or use Axe Lords to chop them to death or something.

Fix more important bugs than the whole Archer Firing issues.

I think I'm gonna start my personal Bay12 Hall of Fame.

The guy came and talked about his game at Something Awful.

As it happens I'm GenericContainer (youtube)/ ihalila (Twitter). I didn't post the video here mainly because it's really early days, and I didn't expect that tweet to attract much any attention. Actually the only reason I even tweeted it was because I had just recently installed TweetDeck. I have to admit I'm surprised how fast it found it's way here + the bay12 forums.

Anyway, it's great to hear all the positive comments about it, it really motivates me to continue working on Goblin Camp. I've been meaning to make a game like this for ages, then along came DF and I thought "well, that handles that", but I really haven't liked the direction it's taken. So I guess I need to make it myself if I want it done right.

Obviously it's not a game yet, it's lacking a lot of things. But the things that are implemented I've put a lot of work into. For example jobs: Priorities are in and working fine, and I've also implemented a prerequisite system where a job will wait until all it's prerequisite jobs have been successfully completed. Building a workshop is a good example, it spawns the actual 'build' job, and spawns additional prerequisite 'bring the wood logs or whatever here' jobs, and will only assign the actual build job once all of the materials have been brought to the build site.

Also I feel that getting the UI working as it should be right from the beginning is pretty crucial. I've put a lot of work into making the UI work with whatever I might think of in the future, so that I can easily add features without having to mess around with the UI code at all.

Just popping in to say I'm really looking forward for the next version. I haven't used any mod ever but I've already decided I'll start a new game in Civilization Forge as soon as it comes out.