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Messages - Paul Gross

Pages: [1]
1
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Keeping track of Levers.
« on: June 25, 2008, 05:40:34 pm »
Color coded levers is amazing, I'll have to remember that one!

2
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Digging designation cancelled: warm stone located.
« on: June 11, 2008, 09:12:00 am »
DTil, a 3rd party application, has a feature called "Unpause" which unpauses the game whenever it is paused.

Very useful for getting past this pause-spam.


3
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Idea: The Dwarven Terrarium
« on: June 08, 2008, 11:05:00 am »
I had great motivation to do this same thing, but I didn't want to have to dump every object I wanted to use (You can imagine in a large fortress, having to dump each individual pig tail, metal ore, stone, wood, etc, etc, etc, would become retardedly complicated.

What I did was derive a complex system of workshop rooms that used pressure plates  as state changers (ie, pressure plate opens a hatch allowing water into a room that has another pressure plate, it was way complicated).  The idea was to have each worker switch off between 2 workshop areas, while keeping himself sealed inside.  While he was in 1 area, the other area would be refilled with resources and finished goods would be hauled off.  When he was done with his work he would swap to the other area.  Same applies for the other state.

Needless to say, it was all planned out nicely and when I tested it I found out the hard way.... Pressure plates don't work!  But you could use levers!

Heres the basic idea:

Craftdwarf Bob gets a bedroom and a lever.  The lever would be fairly complex.  It would create an airlock that would consist of Bob's room and Bob's west wing workshop.  When he hit the lever again, it would close off the west wing workshop and open the east wing workshop.  While opening the east wing workshop to Craftdwarf Bob and sealing the west wing workshop from Craftswarf Bob, it should also open the west wing workshop to the world including Hauler Alice.

So essentially you have 2 states:

Initial design:

...DWDBDWD...

D: Door (Sealed by levers)
W: Workshop area
B: Bed (For Craftdwarf Bob)

State 1:
...DW BDW ...

State 2:
... WDB WD...

So the only thing that is stopping it from working automatically is pressure plates, but you can use a lever (or 2).  I've heard it is possible to make levers that open one door and close another using a trick but I don't know exactly how it works... Only that it requires you to pull the lever twice =].

One more PRO for the system though: The craftdwarf will put all the goods he creates into bins, and the haulers will only have to deal with taking entire bins instead of one object at a time across a long distance... Theoretically.

A movie of the idea implemented using pressure plates (not perfect) can be found at: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-605-samplepressureplateairlock

Note the idea can be implemented any way you choose.  You can use 3 z levels (workshop, bedroom, workshop) and have hatches instead of doors.  I just wish Pressure plates worked (And didn't have a stepoff delay).


4
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: housing strategies
« on: June 06, 2008, 09:19:00 am »
If you are looking for some cheap ghetto housing, look no further:
code:

#####
#BCB#
#TCT#
##D##

# - wall
B - Bed
C - Coffer
T - Cabinet

Share each room with 2 people, which takes the total room value down by 50% (2x furniture, 1/4x room price due to dual use).  No smoothing, no engraving, no masterpieces in the bedroom, etc.

Its basically a college dorm room, but bigger.


5
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Automated/Super-efficient Hauling?
« on: June 04, 2008, 05:26:00 pm »
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-605-samplepressureplateairlock

Theres a movie of the 'airlock'.  When i first made it I used levers, and made a very stupid assumption that pressure pads actually work (same system using levers worked flawlessly =[).  Pressure pads never activate for dwarves, even if citizens activate is set, but they do activate for animals.  So I put a horse in the room.  Pressure pads kind of work for it, but the delay caused the world to be connected to the horse for a split second and he took off towards his master at the end, blowing up the system entirely.  Not to mention that it completely ignored the restricted access placed on the inside pressure plates which would've prevented the catastrophe in the first place (dwarves wouldn't have ignored it).

Back to the drawing board on that one...

As for the suggestions on stockpiles and Z levels, thats not efficient enough, I want more.  Thats how you make efficient workshops, not efficient hauling to/from the workshops (which is what clogs up everything, causing clutter and degrading all production).


6
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Automated/Super-efficient Hauling?
« on: June 04, 2008, 03:04:00 pm »
I am on a quest to find some sort of super efficient or automated hauling techniques, and I'm at a loss.  I figured there are people out there smarter than me that could lay out some ideas.

I've tried water-pushing, but it is too inconsistant and it destroys items.  I've pulled off a system that actually did manage to push objects quite a distance using water pumps, but it can only push downward on an angle (and it eventually destroys the objects it pushes).  Every 10 tiles or so you must have a 1 z-level drop to keep the water flowing, so it ends up being a 'sloped' system.  I've pretty much given up on this idea completely.  If anyone has done this successfully at any level, I'm all ears as to how its done.

I'm now thinking about an idea of compartmentalizing the dwarves to keep haulers in a general vicinity and/or trade off some of the hauling work to the workshop owners as well.  The general idea is to have a stonecrafter make crafts, put the crafts into a bin, and have a hauler come and pickup the bin... This is not easy at all.  In general it would subdivide haulers into short-distance and long-distance haulers.  Too much waste occurs when dwarves are running far distances to move a single stone bracelet from a workshop to the finished goods stockpile (whether it be 3 squares away from the workshop or 40, they still have to run that 40 tile distance to the job).

Heres what I have laid out, but I can't find a way to actually make it flawless and streamlined.

Lock the dwarves into the workshop area.  It should have access to workshop, input resources, output stockpile, storage bins, food, water/alcohol, a bed, table, and chair.  All the necessities for a workshop to be run.  While the workshop is being worked, the area must be completely sealed.  Once the workshop duties are complete the dwarf will have no other job other than to put what he created in bins.  Once that is completed he will have the No Job order and head to the nearest meeting zone, where I can lock him out of the workshop and let the workshop have access to the rest of the world (eg the fortress).  Dedicated haulers will then come by, pickup the finished goods and transport them to the stockpile location as well as drop off fresh new inputs (such as metal bars, more stones, thread, etc).  Once the workshop is cleared the area would be reverted back to its original state, namely given back to the dwarf who runs the workshop to repeat the process.  I could do this manually by forbidding doors periodically, but that is a pain.  I tried to layout a series of pressure plates that toggle doors open/close (which I got to work very well), but I came to a problem where you cannot prevent a hauler from getting locked into the workshop when the dwarf decides to go back to work (also each workshop area would require massive amounts of mechanisms and furniture =] ) UNLESS you can guarantee only one hauler will ever enter the workshop at a time.

An alternative to the above is to have the dwarf locked in a room with an input chute and an output chute.  I would designate a garbage dump and dump all full bins as they come, they will be thrown down the chute, reclaimed, and a hauler will come by and carry it to the depot.  I don't want to do this because I have to constantly dump/reclaim items, and it may require some sort of compartmentalized 'sorting room' which has its own problems.  If I could automate this, it just might work...  Some ideas I had were to place stockpiles on bridges and retract the bridge periodically (dropping all the goods to the workshop), but you cant put stockpiles on anything that can open (hatches, bridges).

Any other ideas?


7
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Entrance Halls?
« on: June 02, 2008, 08:44:00 am »
I tend to use multiple spiral staircase layouts in a cube style fort and stick all defenses outside in a castle form using walls built of stone.

I've had no luck putting defenses underground, the civilians just love to get in the way.  If you put your primary defense outside and abuse the pathfinding of the enemy AI a bit you can construct a very potent defense very easily.  Just make sure that the entrance to your dig site (above ground location) is safe and you won't have many civilian pileups.

Example:

code:
#   #########
#           #
#           #
# #######   #
# #         #
# #         #
# #   #######
#           #
#           #
#           #
#####       #
# >      rrr#
#           #
#############
# ... Wall
> ... Stairs down
r ... Ramp access for Depot

This is pretty much failsafe for me.  You have a 3 tile wide route to a ramp that leads to your fortresses trade depot (probably locked off), and a entrance to your fortress which isn't in plain sight of any incoming goblins.  You also have abusive AI pathing by funneling all the goblins invaders down the skinny path on the left, so you can put your traps there and have maximum efficiency.  Building a tower in any corner with fortifications gives marksmen a good position as well.  No room for siege but I don't think siege is worth the effort due to the range of panic on civilians.  All my forts have this layout concept and goblins are never ever a problem.

One alternative I thought up is to put an outside-inside-outside path to your fortress.  So incoming goblins must walk to your fortress, go underground (and encounter you're underground defenses) then go back above ground again before going into your main fortress.  Your "Dwarves stay Indoors" order then will prevent civilians from ever accessing your underground defensive area.  The problem I foresee though is that they'll never leave the underground defensive area either (herbalists, fisherdwarves, hunters, woodgatherers, etc).  Some day I'll think up something that will work, as building outside is extremely tedious, especially when you get ambushed while building it.


8
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / What to do now?
« on: May 25, 2008, 11:39:00 am »
I've been playing a few fortresses and I'm ultimately stuck at the "What to do now?" stage.

I've gotten 100+ population fortresses, only to abandon it due to lack of frame rates, annoying nobles, and a general consistant lack of useful metal ores (unless you count 10 nickel veins, woopdy).  I've played on terrifying surroundings, but the only terrifying thing about it is the first year, getting underground with food and water...  A couple pack of beak dogs came at my starting wagon but a full 7 man draft of unarmed dwarves had no problem fending them off.  Nothing seems to be HARD about this game.

A titan? It walked into a cage trap and lost a 1on1 match against my legendary brawler/sworduser/shielduser/armoruser champion, not a threat.  A Hydra? Died to stonefall traps.  An onslaught of goblins? Massacred by my marksdwarves and stonefall traps.

I now set the pop limit to 74 (80 wasn't good enough, nobles still came and ended up evicting my population and setting mandates to build 'pig iron bar items', as well as reducing my frame rates by 25% or more.

I've gotten legendary weavers, clothiers, stonecrafters, miners, planters, engravers (which end up being fast haulers), but really what does it matter?  The goods they create can only be traded for ... other goods I don't need.  I can't get the trade caravan to trade me 400 iron/steel/gold/platinum/etc bars or gems, they bring 10 at most.  I generally unload everything I can in trade for the one item the dwarves tend to bring every time.... Yep... that batch of 25 super steel bolts worth 75k+.  

So in my latest game (Terrifying environment) I decided not to make goods, instead I'd carve out a gigantic preplanned fortress including a waterfall in the dining room, a crypt, a 'flood my fortress lever', and a labyrinth of doom for incoming invaders.  The problem is the invaders aren't coming!  I have 8 miners at all times.  Legendary Miners whom earn Perfectly Agile status become Legendary Haulers.  I have 5 farmers (1 brewer, 4 planters), 1 Mechanic, and the rest are engravers (until Perfectly Agile of course).  This doesn't seem fair.

So I've come to the conclusion that in Dwarf Fortress mode, the one and only thing that truely matters is you have a farm.  Farms can be setup almost instantly in fertile soil, allowing you an unlimited supply of food and drink through plump helmets alone.  Everything else is just well, luxury?  My fortress survived just fine with A) A plump helmet farm, B) A still, and C) one single big room to hang out.

I've contemplated trying the game without farms but It'd be literally impossible unless you have an endless source of freshwater or pick a really easy starting location with no enemies and plenty of plants to gather, which then becomes trivially easy.

So what to do now?  Is there a "Hard mode" option anywhere? =]


9
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Running low on Plump Helmets, help?
« on: June 08, 2008, 08:19:00 am »
Brew them, it'll make seeds instantly.  You cannot process plump helmets.

10
DF Suggestions / Re: Gnome-like gizmos
« on: June 13, 2008, 11:30:00 am »
Well goblins in an atom smasher sounds good and all but good luck crushing the iron armor they are wearing, you are likely to break/jam/wear your smasher on the first gobbo.  And definately don't try and smash a bronze colossus, you'll lose the masterwork statue!

The best suggestion above has to be the legitament atom smasher, so we can remove the drawbridge exploit all together (which i must say is very easy to become used to abusing).  In areas without a chasm or magma, getting rid of clutter would be more of a challenge.


11
DF Suggestions / Re: Gnome-like gizmos
« on: June 12, 2008, 01:19:00 pm »
Aye, an and gate is simply 2 things jammed into a gear, if both are removed it turns, if any are there it doesnt turn.  An or gate would be more complex... 2 opposite direction ratchet style gears would suffice, it can turn either way.

12
DF Suggestions / Re: Gnome-like gizmos
« on: June 11, 2008, 12:53:00 pm »
I do agree that some of the ideas are a little out of theme, but if all that is taken from the post is the pressure plates, swapper, and and/or type mechanism creations that would seriously be a huge improvement as basic building blocks allow for innovative creations.

13
DF Suggestions / Gnome-like gizmos
« on: June 10, 2008, 03:21:00 pm »
I really love the idea of dwarf fortress's mechanics system, and I know it isn't the theme but I am going to throw it out there.

Basic building block types of devices, as well as configurable parts inside such devices.

I'm pretty sure it has been discussed before but here is a quick list:

Pressure plates fixed (Allow dwarf citizens to activate, bug fixed already maybe?)
- Add options for delays when activated/deactivated.  Currently they send activate signals immediately when stepped on and deactivate signals approximately 100 frames after stepping off.  Would be nice to be able to change this from say instant/quick/delayed (1 frame, 100 frames, 400 frames or something).

Counters
- When activated, it increases the 'count' by 1, when deactivate decreases the counter by 1.  When the counter is zero it sends an activate to whatever it is linked to, when the counter is nonzero it sends a deactivate to whatever it is linked to.  No negatives, a deactivate at count 0 should resend a deactivate signal again.  Add instant/quick/delayed response.  Max count variable setting should be applied as a modulo to the count (eg max of 7 means 0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-0 on constant activations).

Swapper (basically a NOT gate):  When deactivated, sends an activate signal.  When activated, sends a deactivate signal.

AND/OR gate:  When set to AND, simply if all inputs mechanisms have sent an activate signal, send an activate signal (activated only upon being activated).  When set to OR, if any input mechanisms have sent an activate signal, send an activate signal (actiated only upon being activated).  XOR, NAND, NOR, etc are not required...

Linking devices to devices:  Counters, gates, etc should be able to link to themselves, Thus a counter/gate that sends a signal to itself with a delay will become a natural timer.

Handling abuse:  Overused mechanisms (based on activations/deactivions per second?) should wear and break, preventing infinite loops and/or crashes.

Examples of use:

Linking a pressure plate to an or gate (with a second permanently on signal) could make it an activator.  When the pressure plate activates it would send a signal to the and gate which would then send a signal to the target, but when the pressure plate deactivates it would send a signal to the or gate and (since it has a second permanent on signal) it would send another activate signal to the target.  Create 2 such pressure plates (one with a swapper gate attached) and you are "gonna have us some fun" (Mac, Predator)

Linking a pressure plate to a swapper, and linking the swapper and a lever to an and gate, and linking the and gate to an 'atom smasher' would generate a safety precaution such that the atom smasher could never be activated when a dwarf is standing in the vicinity.

Linking 5 pressure plates to an or gate, and linking the or gate to 5 spike traps would result in any pressure plate being activated results in 5 spike traps coming up.  Previously this would require all 5 pressure plates to link to all 5 spike traps (meaning total links/mechanisms used is now N+M+1 instead of N*M).

Linking a timer (see above) to a gear assembly (powering a water pump) would give controlled water flow (eg on for 2 seconds, off for 2 seconds).

And of course with new basic building blocks one would require new gnomelike gizmos to be activated.  We have at our disposal bridges, floodgates, doors, etc.  Kind of bland at the moment, as it is generally limited to atom smashers, raised drawbridges, and 'liquid control' systems...  NOTE none of these are things I'd cry if I didn't have, they are just ideas... favored towards factory construction I guess.  I'm not that creative.

Elevators:
- Requires chain, cage, mechanism.
Elevator Shaft:
- Requires chain, nechanism, open space

Description:  Build a shaft that hangs from the ceiling (requires power), build an elevator below the shaft.  When an elevator receives an activate signal, it raises one level (if the above level has a shaft).  When an elevator receives a deactivate signal, it lowers one level (if the below level has a shaft).  Elevators never support shafts/adjacent tiles and are always hanging.  One tile of open space on the bottom should be required to prevent 'atom smashing' like behavior?

Conveyer Belt
- requires chain, mechanism, ??? material belt?, power.
- can be built any reasonable size, ala bridges/roads

Description: When sent an activate signal, moves all objects/creatures/etc on the belt one tile towards (preselected) direction.  If total weight moved is greater than some threshold, nothing happens (based on power/material, a crappy belt may not move 100 units of stone, but a steel one may).  Threshold can be based on both power input (# of units of power per unit weight, so it might require 400 units of power to move heavy rocks etc) as well as belt material (steel can handle more weight than silver/copper).  Jams can occur when the end of the conveyer belt dropoff has reached its full capacity (or when too much crap ends up at the end of the belt).  Belt speed limited to 1 movement per # of frames (possibly 1 movement per 10 frames, so you cannot have a conveyer belt of doom for goblins who walk on it that sends them 1000mph at a...

Atom smasher
- Yes, an actual atom smasher to replace the drawbridge abuse.
- Requires material (stone or metal blocks), power, mechanism.
Description: When sent an activate signal, it attempts to smash anything on the tile it is placed, when deactivated it removes the atom smasher and allows for more objects to be placed.  Materials dictate what can be smashed (wood smashers would simply break, while adamantine smashers would be able to smash even the largest stone rocks).  Heavy duty metal smashers could smash very heavy items whereas stone smashers could not smash say... other stone (it would break).  Useful at the end of a conveyer belt!  Power requirements possibly based on material of the smasher or weight of the material used in the smasher (adamantine - cheap, heavy rocks - requires lots of power).  Smashing rocks should have the ability to create sand.  Smashing food/booze/plants/etc creates splatter (eg blood splatter) that needs to be cleaned periodically.  Smashing leather/cloth should do nothing, and smashing dwarves should be hilarious (Welcome to your room countess, let me close the door so you can be alone).  Smashing coal products could create fire?  Smashing ice could (based on environment) create water.  Noise generated should be unbearable, smashers that have in the past smashed a dwarf (on purpose or accident) should generate fear as goblins do (causing panic and run away), unable to ever be disassembled again...


Lift
- requires chain, mechanism, cork screw, material block, power, open space (similar to a grate/well)

Description, when activated simply attempts to grab an item (or dwarf) 1 z level below and place it on the tile to the north/east/south/west (designated when built)  Similar to a water pump but doesn't work with water.  The premise here is that you cannot put stockpiles on conveyer belts (as its a construction) but you can put lifts OVER stockpiles resulting in less haulers, and more fun/booze time for dwarves.

Thats it for now I guess...  Is it too gnomish and not dwarvish?  Perhaps we could play on a new Gnome Fortress mode (mechanics are the only profession, period).  Could be fun =]


14
DF General Discussion / Re: Dtil - Updated June 7th 2008
« on: June 08, 2008, 10:35:00 am »
I'd just like to say, the Digger plugin is infinitely useful.  I laid out an obscure layout for my fortress (40x40 size), then proceeded to 'paste' the layout 10 z levels deep.

AMAZING.

For those who don't know, sometimes it doesn't work at all, this is because the area isn't loaded into memory.  You can fix this by designating the entire bottom Z level of your area to be mined and undesignate it.  This will allow you to use the Digger anywhere.

Very nice tool!


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