Bay 12 Games Forum

The references light/dark grey rock are artifacts of the 2D version, when masons and craftshops made a distinction by stone types and many of the little clusters of today didn't exist.  Suffice to say, as the wiki also states, most of the Room Value page is certainly outdated and may have been wrong to begin with.  Note the laughable statement that engravings only count on the side of the wall the engraver was facing.

I can say from experience that rooms in ordinary rock and in more valuable flux definately make a difference in quality, before and after engravings.  Sadly, I don't have a fort with these features now so I can't confirm numbers.

Yeah yeah, Sid Vicious died a long time ago.  It was kind of part of a implied jesting threat because I really like punk rock.  By extension, nope, I don't like the Sex Pistols either, because I prefer more complicated melodies in my music.  But he was worth mentioning, because the Sex Pistols were, if not the originators, then certainly the best early example of the "Three Cords and the Truth" style of punk that splits the genre to this day, heavily influncing Motörhead, which in turn gave rise to the whole 'speed metal' side of the spectrum.

Since Kagus is the only one who can google, and I feel like talking, I'll break down the others.

Mike Ness is southern; since apparently anybody with a hint of twang is automatically in Buck Owens territory, I won't bother slicing up a distinction with country.  Suffice to say that he's hard rock with a punk style and a midwest accent.  If "Through These Eyes" was good enough for Yatzhee Croshaw, then it's good enough for you.

Dexter Holland is the frontman for The Offspring, and does the sort of music that most readily comes to mind with the word Punk; whiney suburbanites thrashing on cheap guitars.  They're sort of a modern yardstick from which other Punk genres orient - they're certainly not the best, just the most stylistically centrist.  And if you have to have lyrics about war and violence to considering worth listening to, "Hammerhead" should do nicely.

Jello Biafra was a key personality in the Dead Kennedys, who I threw in to show Punk is definately not 'pretentious chick music', except fakers like Greenday as I ranted.  And because "Holiday in Cambodia" is a fun song.

Doctor Gregory Graffin is the founder and lead singer of Bad Religion, a band which I can laboriously argue is to Punk as Iron Maiden is to Metal.  Both aren't mainstream enough to really be famous, but too mainstream for genre elitists to take seriously.  Both rejected thrash sound and fake rage for complicated riffs, technical proficiency, and genuine entusiasm.  Both also have been rocking hardcore longer than most of their fans realize.  Good examples are "New Dark Ages" and "Let Them Eat War".


Now to give some real answers to the original question.

Alterative (Rock or Punk) is a code word for 'can be listened to by women who think they're hip'.  If it was on VH1 in the 90's, it's Alternative.  Which is a bit unfortunate, because they're not necessarily bad songs or crap bands, just misleading and demo-targeted.  Again, Greenday is good example of the punk side, Nickelback and Collective Soul for rock.

To go along with my big rant, the category Southern Rock should be added to the list, to include many of the bands I mentioned.  It doesn't hold much influence today outside of pop-country (thanks statute of limitations), but for historical completeness can't be ignored.

There's not really such a genre as Classic Rock, because no band that's in it was "Classic" when they were new - no one sets out to be on the oldies station.  Casting a wide net, a hallmark would be a more accoustic sound, but The Eagles, who are most certainly Classic Rock, were made famous as one of the first bands to rely on electronic distortion.

And easy listening might include people like Frankie Valley and Glenn Campbell, but it hasn't existed in so long even I don't really know.  Basically it's what your grandparents listened to, and what even your parents think is square.

Holy crap that was long.  Yeah, music is definately a bad topic for discourse.

Yo!  Devlog!  Up!

06/20/2008: 188. I've finished the largest issues with roads/tunnels etc. that I've located. The tunnels will now connect into the dwarf and goblin sites. As with roads, they look very basic. These are goblin tunnels connecting to three other goblin sites -- in addition to the chasm bridges, you can see a few smaller tunnels, ramps and staircases that lead up into the towers of the site at this location, though you can't see the towers themselves. There's a bug right now where sleeping guards spam unconsciousness messages, which I'm going to fix before the release, but it messed up my attempt to make a tunnel movie. I thought it would be an uneventful journey, but I gather now that I may have been mistaken. I managed to kill four antmen at the first chasm bridge I found, and a few more wandering the tunnel after that, but I guess there was another chasm up ahead.

Including proof that the great Toad plays just like us.  The highways aren't for civilized men.  Or lowways, as it were.

Also, apparently Dwarven excavation skill is so great, they can pound a cavern floor down to the predominant rock.  Is the way the tunnel floor just reverts to the dominant layer where it cuts through veins considered a bug or a quirk?  Either way is fine of course.  It's more than enough for us players to let our imaginations run away with.

Does either one of you mind the character NOT having a typical role, like the others? I.e., they may have ulterior motives.

I'll go ahead and give it to whoever replies first. The other person will still get an Associate.

Alright, forget the too fearful to be disloyal part.  Just acting too fearful to be disloyal.  Then it'll be shiftyness all the way!

Just like NetHack...

Yes, that's just what DF needs.  Water Nymphs stealing clothing and send your warriors in an aimless frenzy trying to get all their stuff back without breaking that mirror and destroying their luck.

All right, commitments made that take a lot longer than it should have.  Then my dwarves decided to be shiftless buggers, the liason showed up, more plants needed to be grown, migrants arrived, and the farmer fell asleep.  Anyway...  Everything is locked down so nothing should get in your way.


All plant types are present in the fortress storage - all brewable plants were set to be brew-allowed in the kitchen, then all plant stacks were marked as forbidden.  The fortress has a Still, a Quern, and three Farmer's Workshops, which were then set to Brew, Mill, Process, Process to Bag, and Process to Barrel.  A smith, carpenter, fisher, and peasent were then ordered to brew, mill, and process.

If all goes as it does on my computer, as soon as the game is unpaused, they should rush off to grab forbidden plant stacks and set to work.  If they cancel the jobs, then something must be wrong with my installation, or some other problem.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=241

Think a Happy dog name. Nothing tough, adventurous or noble. Think of a dog with a Face of God.

Ceasar?

Unless of course that's not an obtuse Eddie Izzard reference...