Bay 12 Games Forum

Here are a few suggestions for balancing the game a little.  I have come up with these with these while playing, and i hope that these are useful. though, they ARE up for debate. I'm going to include links to the wiki as well.

Quarry Bushes: http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Quarry_bush
Quarry bushes are the single most productive plant in the game.  Processing one bush can give up to five leaves. 2 leaves are able to become an easy meal, 3 leaves are able to become a fine meal, and 4 will become a lavish meal. A single dwarf that plants 20 rock nuts, something easily doable even at start when the farmer is often the cook, will yield over 100 leaves. (20 x 5 leaves each). This will yield 50 easy meals, 33 fine meals (with one leaf left over) or 25 lavish meals. Its turn that this is offset by the fact that we must process the leaves to a bag, but once the leaves are cooked, the bag is free again, so even at start, we are able to make a massive amount of food. Once the fort gets its own cook, there is really no reason to grow anything else. (except stuff for alcohol) Now, i am under the impression that all other food is a 1:1 ratio. I understand that we need to have a variety of food, but there's nothing a grand food hall cant' cure. SO, to preserve the Quarry bush's unique properties, i would suggest that the Quarry bush be changed to produce 2 leaves, in addition to more severe penalties due to the "same food" bad thought. Maybe its bland taste could require that it be placed with a different food item? This way, we are unable to grow simply quarry bushes for an entire fortress.

Elves: Really, they are quite useless. always bringing the same thing over and over.  However, combined with the Giant Cave Spider products (see below) I am able to buy enough cloth to last an entire year. Recently, after only a single ambush, i was able to buy enough rope reed cloth to last my dwarves an entire year. Why would i need to grow pig tail plants if i could simply trade for all that i need? I COULD simply ignore pig tail plants all together, making them worthless. IF i were to plant them, I suddenly have the ability to make 3 times as much clothing. Of course, if I don't grow them, i suddenly find that my planter and my food operators no longer have to worry about processing all of those semi-worthless pig tails, and concentrate on the MUCH more valuable food stuffs.  I have all the rope reed cloth i need for bags. However, if the elves were to bring, say, more animals, then I have to suddenly worry about 1) the 3 bins of cloth is only enough for a single season of bags. 2) Since i don't' have enough pigtails, i need to grow some. 

#1 only has one solution: I need to grow some pigtails. However, my farmer must spend time planting the pigtails seeds, and won't plant anything else as he's (or she) is planting pigtail seeds. Therefore, i must plan ahead of time to deal with that shortage. OF course, i could always reuse the same bags, but that is assuming that i don't' need bags for sand. This means that my dwarves are forced to work at a constant quick pace, or i have a massive storage area. This might mean that i have to use say, my mechanic as a cook just to use all the food I can because i don't' have enough storage area. OF course, this only affects those of us who play microforts, but its still something to think about. 

Now, the elves could bring more animals, which would help me build a fancy zoo, or butcher for more labor-intensive dinners, but the cost could be through the roof. a tamed alligator, for example, may cost 500 Dwarf bucks, while a jaguar would cost 1,000. Animals could be used for a zoo, or as a fancy pet for nobles.  pets could come in tame and untamed versions, with the tame jaguar costing 3,000 dwarf bucks, and the wild jaguar costing 1,000? the tamed jaguar could be a fancy pet, or a fortress guard, while the wild one is good for only the zoo. This would be a further cash sink for those of us who don't' trade with the elves as they are now. In addition, none of us REALLY follow the elves's requirements for trees. SO, what if they were to offer a discount? say, 25% off for following their orders? This way, we are simply offered an additional challenge with an actual reward rather than letting the elves give another useless order?

Giant Cave Spider Stuff: all right, i know this has been mentioned before, but GCS stuff seems to be VERY overpriced. As i stated above, i was able to buy out the elves's caravan with only the use of the GCS stuff i got in a single raid. each of it was over 600 Dwarf bucks each, an a few were at 700.  If we were to dye them, there's a nice boost to that as well.
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Dyer
I know its supposed ot be rare, but buying out platinum ore with a single vest seems SLIGHTLY over balanced. therefore, i propose that the price get cut in half, if not more.  300 dwarfbucks is still something to cheer about, but is not so powerful as to be able to buy out entire caravans with only a few raiding parties.

Looting price: Late in the game, we are actually able to support ourselves with only the loot dropped from sieges and ambushes. However, something didn't' sit right with me. the shirt the goblin is wearing has been stabbed, shot at, and soaked in blood. would you REALLY pay the full amount for something that is stained in goblin's blood, and has a massive hole through the chest? of course not. I Would suggest adding negative multipliers to an item of clothing for each hit. say, 5% of the value is taken off of plate armor for each hit a goblin takes, while clothing takes a 10% hit. blood stains might take another 5% value away, while vomit takes an addition 5% off. Clothing that is sufficiently destroyed will simply be known as "cloth" since it is still able to be used for the production of another item. A piece of armor would never withstand a ballista shot, so it would only be able to count as "ore." This way, we are never able to get the full value of something that we got from a raid, and we are forced to maintain a steady production industry even late in the game.

Traps: I know this one has been debated over and over, and they do seem rather over powered. they're also a bit silly: how can 10 enormous steel corkscrews, popping up out of the ground presumably, fit into the same space, using the same mechanism, when they are clearly 1X2? 10 spears might be able to do it, but never 10 giant axe heads.  I suggest that each trap is given a specific amount of space to work with, depending on where it is located. a trap on flat ground is given 5 units of space to work with, while one on along a wall is given 10 units of space, and one on two walls is given 15, and one with 3 walls is given 15. this way, we can imagine traps coming out of the walls, in addition to the ceiling.   A mechanism would be required for each 5 units of space, since a mechanism in the floor cannot operate something in the wall, or the ceiling, in addition to one for each item in the trap itself. one mechanism serves the trigger, one transfers THAT motion to the floor/ceiling, while the other mechanism   So, the formula would be the following 1 + (amount of space/5) + amount of items. Giant axe heads and enormous corkscrews would require 5 units of space, spears, serrated edges,  and spiked balls, swords (ect) and crossbows would require 2 units of space. Bows would no longer be required, We could also require that traps in the middle of a floor be connected to a trap located by a wall, or limited to 5 units of space, since there is no place to hide a mechanism connecting the ceiling.

Goblets and flasks: These may seem like a minor issue, but for each unit of ore used on one of these projects, 3 units are created instead of 1, like say, toys. They are also the same value as everything else. So, that aluminum toy, which took 1 bar to create, is worth the 300 dwarf bucks. Those 3 flasks that also took 1 bar to create are also worth 300 each, for a combined value of 900.  This seems to be a bit of an oversight that has one of 2 corrections, reduce the value of flasks and goblets by a third, or increase the amount of toys, crafts, and instruments produced. Preferably, I would like to see the second option since this big massive bar has been melted down to produce a dinky little toy, when it seems like it would actually make 2, or even 3 of them.  Since we are making 3 the flasks and 3 goblets for the same value of a single toy, we could slice the value by a third, so the value of the 3 combined will equal a single toy, so it really wouldn't matter what we make. As it is, we can make more money by making only flasks and goblets, which doesn't seem to be intended.

Thanks for clearing it up. 

Indeed. thank you.

Perfect.

Do dwarves engage unconscious targets? A room full of fleshy sandbags would make a nice temporary barracks for a recruit with a .wooden spear. .

yes they do.

Quote from: Splendiferous on December 21, 2008, 12:48:29 am

bit of a newb question, but how do you choose where to place a specific piece of furniture, such as a masterpiece table, and how do you tell your dwarves to decorate said masterpiece table in particular?

You just tell your dwarves to <B>build a <B>t</B>able, then select which kind and the spot you want it in.

Decorating is a bit more finicky, you can tell a craftsdwarf to decorate furniture in general but not a specific piece. I get around this by locking them in their workshop with the item I want decorated and the jewels I want it decorated with, but this kind of micromanagement can get annoying fast so I usually only bother if I'm building something extra special for a specific dwarf.

you screwed up your tags. i went ahead and fixed them.

Quote from: SimRobert2001 on December 20, 2008, 04:36:24 pm

Quote from: Dwarf on December 20, 2008, 03:52:33 pm

Did you have any mules or other male animals?

great. now i have pop tart all over my keyboard.

you should think about those of us who are eating when we read your posts.

Was it so funny or so disgusting? Or even funnisting?
Also, what the hell is a pop? Soft Drink, Popsicle, Lollipop, Popcorn?

Thats how funny it was. a "pop tart" is a small pastry thats eaten, usually for breakfast.

LOLOLLOLOL
http://tofuhut.racknine.net/pics/poptart.jpeg

Its like that, except that its an actual food item, and not a kitten. look at the front of the box.

go ahead man. sounds like a slight bug, though. i was under the impression that only one type of bone would be used to decorate. 

I got "Dwarf cancels Attend Party, no floor space" yesterday ... too many damn donkeys in the zoo :=) Anyway, this led me to assume that a 1x1 meeting zone is useless.

its not. dwarves who enter the square get to talk wiht other dwarves who are in that same square. there coudl be a limit we dont' know about, or parties themselves have a needed amount of floorspace.