Bay 12 Games Forum

It's actually the 'j'-sound of the 'g' in Genghis. Jenghis Khan.

And Kusgnos has it entirely correct, although sometimes conflicts would be resolved without pointy things, and instead just bashing the crap out of each other until one of you bleeds to death.

Japanese swordsmanship was about achieving the enemy's death in one blow, completely without regard to one's life. The worst they'd aim for was a mutual kill. Compared to European swordsmanship, the difference in blades could not be more pronounced, as the typical westerner thought his life actually meant something, so they actually incorporated some manouvering into the equation.

I'm not sure if it's limited entirely to modern kendo, but the criteria for 'winning' a kendo match is to attack, stamp and shout at the same time, whilst also being ready for any attacks your opponent may try in the interim. That equates to some level of self-preservation, at least in my book.

And sorry if I appear a bit too vehement about this, I just emerged from the fires of an argument with someone whose sum knowledge came entirely from Dead Rising.

Yeah, I've been there, don't worry. I may seem defensive of the katana, but I've dispelled my share of myths too.

And by "axe", I wasn't referring to the actual motion on behalf of the wielder, but rather the physics of the damage itself. It is not entirely dependant upon its RAZOR SHARP EDGE FORGED IN THE FIRES OF SATAN'S ASS AFTER BURRITO NIGHT AND COOLED IN THE GULLET OF THE GREAT OLD ONE WHO LIES DEAD AND DREAMING as many people seem to think.

This is true. The curved blade does, in fact, lend somewhat more power into a chopping blow, but still not as much as the European swords have (or an axe...). But samurai did believe in caring for their weapons to some extent, and a sharper blade would have been more useful in Japan at that time than a blunt(ish), armor-crushing one.

ANYWAYS! A claymore weighs in at around five and a half pounds (two to three kilos). Compare that to the two to four pounds of a katana and you can see exactly where I'm coming from; western swords, in fact, typically have VERY thinly forged blades when compared to eastern models, which becomes compounded when you consider that a genuine japanese blade, the type forged by those 'living national treasures', has been worked to the point of acquiring a crystalline structure. I probably don't even need to elaborate on what that means as far as density is concerned.

Are you sure you're not confusing East with West here? Europe (and also America now) is Western, whereas China and Japan (the Far East) are Eastern. If you're not, you may need to clarify.

Also:

Just goes to show you that the hammer is the best possible weapon.  For all purposes.  At all times.

QFT (not really, but a hammer is still useful most of the time)

On the positive side, the elves and dwarves will be extremely happy with you.

$50 now, $50 in two weeks (when I get paid). Mostly because I want to donate $100 but can't afford it yet.

Maybe another $25 when the release comes. If I've got the money.

EDIT: that's in Aussie money, by the way. It should work out to ~$95 total.

EDIT2: Wait, no disregard that...

Damn I hate Paypal...

Quote from: Aqizzar on July 02, 2008, 02:22:51 am

Would not all of that also apply to scimitars and daos as well?  I imagine a similar principle was at work.

...

Damn children of the late '80s, convinced everything Japanese is magically surperior... grumble, rant, grumble...

1: While people don't generally think it, katana are heavier than western swords. MUCH heavier. Running from two to four pounds, that would make it, at the extreme, around *ten times* heavier than a scimitar.

Zu-wha?!

An approximate average weight for a katana is somewhere between 1.2-1.5 kgs, or ~2.4-3 pounds. (I'm not good at metric to imperial, so if that's wrong I apologise)

Show me a scimitar that weighs 150 grams and I'll show you a sword made of plastic.

Katana are also more manoeuverable, due to the fact that the point of balance is a mere 5" from the tsuba or crossguard. (Some Western swords can be anywhere up to 8-10"!)

However, because of that they are much less like an axe than some of you are trying to make out. If you want a sword like an axe, look up falchions.

Also, yes, the most important thing you learn when you begin any kind of sword fighting is that a slicing action does more than a chopping action against an unarmoured foe. In fact, chopping is merely to try and punch through the enemy's armour.

Also, I don't know how many of you have actually held a real katana, but it's not that heavy, really, especially not compared to Western swords.

Hope you like it:



I spent more time on this than any other artifact so far.

Could probably use some more work yet, but I get the strangest feeling that if I try to do anything more, I'm going to end up ruining it.

Rincewind is one of the many characters from the Discworld series of novels by Terry Pratchett.

Rincewind is a cowardly 'wizzard' who, as a wizard, is completely inept, but always seems to be in the wrong place at the right time.

It's the sort of thing that would happen to Rincewind.

I want trolls named things like "Flint" and "Chrysoprase". And they should be barely sentient beings that drink magma (or at least really hot rock).

On-topic:

Having multiple types of creature would be nice, especially if there are differences in the various abilities of the races.

However, this brings up the issue of all civilisations becoming equal because they're basically all made up of the same races.

1. There's no way a katana could get through Gothic Plate. To get through such armour you need to thrust with the tip of your sword and the opponent needs to be prone so you don't just push him away. Katana's curved blade makes it quite unsuitable for thrusting, so you'd have a hard time using it against a well-armoured opponent. And curved blades are designed for use against unarmoured opponents because the cleave flesh better than straight blades. It's the straight blades that have the edge when it comes to hacking through armour (though neither are very good at it). This is why straight swords were popular in Europe where armour was also popular, and curved swords were popular in the Middle east where the climate prevented people from wearing much armour.

While I admit that saying a katana can slice through anything is a bit overexaggerated, I've seen them do some impressive things before. And yes, I know a bit about swords.

Also, katanas are very, very pointy. I'd hate to see what would happen if someone in steel plate (traditional steel, at least) came up against a properly-made katana. Maybe nothing, because I haven't seen it, but I think there's a good chance of some serious spleen-piercing.

2. Nodachi is two handed. Katana could be wielded two handed, but it as more common to wield it one-handed and use the other hand to wield a wakizashi.

Study kendo; it is based on traditional katana techniques, and there's a lot of two-handed attacks in that. The wakizashi is an almost exclusively thrusting sword, more akin to a dagger than anything else. The 'parrying blade' you refer to later is actually the kodachi. (Lit. 'small tachi'; 'small sword')

3. I assure you it's go nothing on the zweihaender when it comes to this last point. Fighting with a zweihaender was a very risky business as you couldn't carry a parrying blade and the wide swings could leave you wide open if you didn't know what you're doing.

The zweihaender is an exclusively two-handed sword (as implied by the name). Are you trying to compare a massive beast of a weapon to the three-foot katana? I hope not.

In conclusion, I think that all katana has going for it is good PR; Damascus and Toledo blades were made of superior metal and their design was at least equally as good as katana's design, if not better.

Superior metal, yes. Equally good design, yes. However, superior metal cannot compare to differential hardening, tamahagane aggregate, and the time-honoured technique of multiple folding.

Seriously, at least learn as much as you can about real katanas before you badmouth them.

I've got that out of my system, so I'm willing to be a bit more reasonable now.