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Messages - pialamode

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1
DF Suggestions / Re: Blue Glass
« on: August 26, 2008, 10:54:33 pm »
A reaction of something like 1 Lead Bar + 3 Sand + 3 Pearlash = 4 Lead Crystal Glass wouldn't go amiss, as it would create a use for Lead, which is currently rather underutilised due to its high density, low value and the lack of valuable alloys.  The main point of this would be a way to make a less valuable substitute for Crystal Glass so nobles who like Crystal Glass don't have to be crushed to death so often.
I agree completely with the basic premise, as lead is basically useless now, and nobles are too squishable. However, I'd like to interject to ruin everything with science. You'd have to add lead oxide, also known as litharge, to clear glass to get lead crystal. You'd make lead from galena, then heat the lead in a smelter to get litharge, which you could then use in a "make lead crystal glass ..." command at the glass furnace. It would be slightly more work, but the reward would be glass almost as valuable as crystal glass. However, I wouldn't want to be the dwarf that was at the smelter to make the stuff, you'd probably get lead poisoning pretty fast. PbO is even more toxic than lead metal.
On a note other than being a science stickler, I do agree with having different colors of glass. I've wanted to make stained glass windows for forever. It's really hard to increase value in constructed buildings, and being able to put in your noble's favorite color of glass windows would help in building above-ground. Building blue glass skylights over your passages and having everything tinted blue would also be really cool. I think colored windows tinting stuff colors is in the bloats as part of the fire / lighting arc. Having the different parts of your fort be built under different types of glass and be color-coded is too cool of an idea to ignore. At least it is for me, but I'm strange.

2
DF Suggestions / Re: Worn clothes
« on: August 18, 2008, 06:29:29 pm »
Well, I know they don't get an unhappy thought from being naked (It's in the Reqs) because they'd get unhappy every time they changed clothes, so it'd be extremely odd if they got an unhappy thought from worn clothes. If they do, this will probably get fixed when he gets around to the dev item.

3
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Why is it that magma doesn't flow up?
« on: August 17, 2008, 10:13:10 pm »
Although magma would flow upwards in real life, it saves frame rate to depict it as not doing so because it requires less annoying coding. For anyone who doubts this, put molasses in a u-bend tube and tell me if the level of molasses doesn't level out on both sides. Viscosity doesn't matter in terms of forming a level surface, it will just take longer to do so with high viscosity. A way to make magma behavior realistic without destroying frame rate would have magma move at half the speed of water (flows for magma would only be calculated every other frame) but still respect pressure. This would actually probably increase FPS overall, and would make magma slower than water, as it should be. As far as I can tell, without pressure they're the same speed.
In terms of setting up your magma workshops you could always use a floodgate to stop the flow of magma into your magma tunnel below your workshops, or pump the magma back up to the top of the magma pipe at the same rate it's flowing down. This would make setting up magma workshops harder than it is now, but you're dealing with molten rock here. It shouldn't be easy. The floodgate idea would work because magma doesn't cool on its own unless you dump water on it, even if it's separated from the main flow. I think the wiki says that it does, but I've never seen it happen, even when it should. If it is ever changed so that magma does cool without water you'd have to ensure that it's constantly flowing, which would be an engineering challenge, but I don't think that'd necessarily be a bad thing. Allowing magma-filled pipes to be used instead of magma underneath one of the outside squares of the forge would make it easier, as would allowing the forges to be built on intact floors above magma flows. In real life the hot air above the magma would kill you long before you fell into the magma, so having a layer of rock between the magma and you would probably be a good idea, especially if the rock isn't very thermally conductive. The dwarves would probably drill through the floor to make a small hole to extract the magma. If the magma powering the workshop was too pressurized it could leave magma "puddles" that would cool into obsidian blobs on the floor, and eventually spill out magma to flood your fortress, but this should be rare. Yet another way to have fun!
I agree that magma pressure should be an init option, though. I don't want all my old fortresses flooding, and it could also increase frame rate if your computer isn't so new.

4
DF Suggestions / Re: Fortress Flavor
« on: August 17, 2008, 02:55:27 pm »
I agree that rather than just snapping and killing everyone or going permanently depressed, your dwarves should have a slow descent into despair. For example, you unhappy dwarf might sit around in their room (moping), stand near a large cliff on their breaks, looking out idly and sighing, or break into a tearing mess and run away to their room. These would be the warning signs. If they got too unhappy they'd go into one of the insane moods dwarves go into upon failing a mood, potentially permanently.
I do really like the fortress flavor idea, though. It would be a good way of players measuring their own progress and forming goals, which DF is already about. It could also have an effect on how your fortress interacts with the outside world. For example, if you made your fortress a socialist utopia for the working class you'd get lots of low-skilled migrants but productivity would be increased, but nobles would be unhappy and try to exert more control, sending more administrator nobles to keep the status quo. If you killed all of the nobles off in a communist revolution your parent civ would not be amused and would periodically raid you, but you wouldn't have to deal with the nobles' crazy demands any more. However, if you made it into a noble-controlled hellhole for the working class you wouldn't get many peasant migrants but the nobles' demands would be more outrageous and productivity would be lower. However, your support from your parent civilization would increase, and you would have more control over kingdom affairs. So, it'd be a way of both measuring your own progress and changing your gameplay experience.

5
DF Suggestions / Re: Modern 'ores'
« on: August 17, 2008, 02:40:16 pm »
The easy fix for this would be to add a [POISON] tag to the raws for things such as lead and pitchblende, or other heavy metals, and if you used it to make stuff the dwarves were in contact with there would be a chance they'd get sick. If you used lead to make barrels they'd get sick even faster, so you'd not want to do that. I really don't think you need to put in long-term radiation stuff, that's just a BIT anachronistic (not to mention WAY more trouble than it's worth), and most of the toxicity is getting radioactive stuff inside you, not long-term exposure from being near it. So, if anything was dangerous the dwarves wouldn't necessarily realize it, but it could make them sick over time if they were exposed to it. Also, since this is fantasy, you could assume magical energy does weird stuff to radioactive things making them more stable. Uranium could just be a really dense, hard metal without intrinsic radioactive properties. Well, the "magical energy stabilizes radioactive elements" is the explanation I give when I DM when I'm tired of saying "you just can't" whenever my players try to use major creation to make uranium, or divine the position of pitchblende or something. It's totally meta-gamey anyway because it requires the assumption that physics works the same way in DnD as it does in real life, which would seem to be contradicted by the existence of EVERYTHING MAGICAL IN THE GAME. Yeah, so no bars of uranium for my players. Although +5 depleted uranium bastard sword would be amusing. Completely impossibly to swing, though.
As for other stuff mentioned, I'm for the crude oil, just one other hazard to find buried under millions of tons of rock that could flood your fortress. It probably wouldn't have a use except to be sold as a health tonic to merchants, which is actually what people did with it before the invention of the internal combustion engine. Snake oil seems to be a recurrent characteristic of human civilization. You could also probably refine it to get tar and stuff, but it would kind of ruin the 14th century aesthetic if you built tarmac roads. Burning it for fuel or light would be fine, though. People used oil lamps all the way back in antiquity. It wouldn't take long for dwarves to realize you could burn the stuff. Steam turbines have been discussed elsewhere, so I think it'd be best to leave those arguments to their own threads.

6
DF Suggestions / Re: Entity tags [FORCE_WAR:]
« on: August 15, 2008, 12:54:59 pm »
Although I support the idea that some races or civilizations should hate each other in theory, I think the whole idea of the Army Arc was that this should happen organically rather than being forced by the player or mod designer. For example, if we wanted humans to fight goblins because they have green skin, pointy teeth, and glowing red eyes, all we need are appearance tags in the raws for the civilization entries and a "tolerance" ethic so that if you gave humans low tolerance for people who look different they'd declare war on them. Everyone knows humans are racist bastards, anyway. I think Toady already mentioned this sort of thing in a dev post, but I don't remember when it was. I can't think of the main reason that elves and dwarves hate each other so much in stock fantasy (other than elves being the arrogant bastards we all build horrible death-traps for know and love), but in the DF universe I can understand elves eating your dead cousin being rather upsetting. This is reflected rather well in crazy zerg-elves being attacked by and attacking every other civilization, so I'd say the current system works rather well. It's just not finished yet. I think it's just a matter of time until territorial conflicts and militarism are covered in the raws, then you'll have many more wars based on territory and resources (probably has to wait for the caravan arc there, too) rather than nebulous philosophical disagreements. So, I'd say a stop-gap measure like this is probably not that necessary in the long run, and would just get removed later when more real reasons for wars are put in. This feature might be useful for experimenting and bug-testing until those features are put in, though. So, in short, I support it if it's a short-term measure but not if it ends up taking away depth from world generation in the long term.

7
Really sorry about the following, I can't seem to find the switch in my brain that turns off "wall of text" mode. Spoilered for sanity of other forum goers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So, to summarize for you people who didn't read my enormous wall of text, I think the stone management system now is about as good as it's going to get for a while. Although it's annoyingly tedious, it's so abstract (read as inconsistent) that it already pushes believability to near the breaking point. For example: a skilled craftsdwarf can change enormous blocks of stone into 3 small mugs. The rest is apparently changed into air.
More on topic I've compiled another wall of text, again spoilered so I don't take up too much forum space:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In response to this:
I never said it had to make sense, just that it would help get rid of extra stone. :P

And yeah, I'd like a lot more focus to go to core issues than something like this, which it is possible for us to work around.  I'm just trying to get ideas pitched for the future.
Stone management in general is a widely discussed topic on the forums, so a search will turn up lots of discussion about it. I'm not coherent enough to compile a list right now, though. This doesn't mean it's a closed issue, though. No approach seems to be best, as basically any solution (including leaving stone management the same) will annoy some people. It's a surprisingly controversial issue, probably because building underground requires it to exist. On one hand you've got the people who want to be drowning in stone for realism and on the other had people who want it to be a non-issue (for example, a "quarry" designation that mines out squares while producing no stone). This is a bit of an oversimplification, but it gets the main idea across: stone management is a hard game issue to deal with. I guess you could allow people to mod it to their taste, like Tamren has with his magical stone burner, but that's a bit of a cop-out as game-designer / amphibious deity to just do nothing for people who want to play by "the rules."
I hope I didn't derail the thread too much ;). I seem to be in a very verbose and somewhat off-topic mood today.

8
DF Suggestions / Re: Making construction more interesting
« on: August 13, 2008, 04:46:10 pm »
If we somehow ran out of concrete (extremely unlikely, we're basically drowning in the raw materials) we'd probably use steel. The stuff's nigh-indestructible (as long as you paint it so it doesn't rust), recyclable, already has a huge industry devoted to it, and they already make buildings out of it on a regular basis. This is assuming that the government doesn't just allow us to clear-cut forests at ease to "help the economy," if they did then we'd use wood. If we used too much steel, though, we'd start to run out and the stuff would get expensive. Most of the steel we've got is recycled from old cars and stuff, as there really isn't that much iron in the earth's crust in the scheme of things. Aluminum, however, is essentially everywhere. It's just too expensive to refine and electrolyse.
More on topic, the stuff you use to make concrete is some sort of aggregate (rocks and stuff- used as filler and to increase strength) and cement. Cement is basically anything that hardens over time. The most common used today is probably portland cement, which is made of CaO (quicklime- made by heating limestone in a kiln, already in the dev notes by the way) SiO2 (sand) Al2O3 (alumina- extracted from bauxite using lime) Fe2O3 (hematite) and MgO (magnesia, found naturally as periclase). Although almost all of these minerals could be made using DF technology, the process to actually make the cement is complicated and tricky, making it extremely unlikely even the industrious dwarves would have figured it out. Roman cement is just pozzolan, a category of naturally found volcanic ash, mixed with lime (from limestone). It should be noted that fly ash - what remains after burning coal - also has similar properties to pozzolan, meaning your dwarves could use the fly ash left over from their smelters to make easy concrete. You can also use chips of fired pottery or pumice stone as a pozzolan, apparently. You can also just heat limestone with a large clay component and hope for the best, but this probably isn't up to dwarven standards. We could assume they could just mix clay and quicklime and automagically get cement that works every time, because they're just that awesome. Another possible choice is calcium aluminate cement, made from limestone and bauxite. It was patented in 1908, but the necessary materials existed long before then. Isn't wikipedia fun? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement

9
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Are carp really that deadly?
« on: August 13, 2008, 02:41:12 am »
magma men can swim through fortifactions(he almost cost me an anvil!)

lava and water can seep through fortifications

i'm not sure if animals can swim through grates or bars but one of them can stop fish
I don't Lava or water creatures can swim through fortifications or bars, but if they are pushed over by flows the game forgets to check if there's an obstruction that liquids can pass through but monsters can't. I've seen this happen in one of my fortresses to a fire imp. It had a brown background, showing it was being pushed over by a flow, and passed through my carved obsidian fortifications. Although, the fire imp mysteriously disappeared from my underground lava tunnel after it was on the other side of the fortifications at some point, so it might have swum back through them. I think it's more likely I just haven't noticed it there. The tunnel's probably too long for the imp to realize that it can get to my workshops (that thing took forever to fill). It could be trying to ambush, but I'm not sure if fire imps can do that. It's not listed as dead on the unit list, and I can't find it in the tunnel using the list either. So, I can neither confirm or deny the statement that swimming creatures can swim through fortifications, but I've seen them get pushed through them. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure bars or constructed fortifications block them though, at least if they're not pushed through.  I haven't had any trouble at least with them in the forts I've built. Just make sure they're made of a magma-safe material if they're in magma.

10
DF Suggestions / Re: First Aid and Nonmagical Healing
« on: August 13, 2008, 02:10:20 am »
Sorry about the wall of text, I've been thinking about this a lot, in case you can't tell ;D. It's a bit more broad than just first aid and non-magical healing, but bear with me.
Good ideas so far, but I think there's some other stuff that hasn't been mentioned yet.
In terms of long-term care I think it would be good if you had different types of items suited to a specific healing purpose. Potions that heal wounds or speed healing don't really make sense medically, at least until magic is implemented. Convential potions (extracted from herbs) should probably be basically limited to deadening pain and / or treating poison or some illnesses. Suitures (stitches) would decrease bleeding significantly, but probably give your dwarf a REALLY bad thought , a la "Urist McInjured has experienced excruciating pain recently" depending on their toughness, unless you prevent pain in other ways, or have a legendary doctor dwarf. You could have gauze that would decrease bleeding and help prevent infection, but if you had an unskilled doctor it might increase the chance of infection, to say nothing of if it wasn't sterile or even sanitary (same applies for stitches). If you applied gauze your doctor dwarf could also have the option of using a salve or tincture that would speed healing, counteract infection, or deaden pain. You should also probably have some alchemical mixture that could be administered to dwarves to knock them out if your alchemist was skilled enough, preventing bad thoughts from having stitches put in, or getting bad thoughts from pain. It would probably have bad side effects or be extremely addictive (not to mention poisonous or deadly) if your alchemist dwarf was unskilled, but if he was skilled it could be quite useful to have the dwarven equivalent of ether. Even if you had such wonder drugs, surgery's still probably a stretch within the Dwarf Fortress setting, or at least surgery that does more good then harm, but might be a possibility for healing internal wounds faster if your doctor dwarf was legendary and you had said concoction and reasonable sanitation.
In terms of immediate care, Medic dwarves with the healthcare labor could also probably run out to the battlefield to drag back dwarves and give some medical care to the wounded, including applying bandages and setting broken bones before the doctor dwarves could treat them. It's also probably a good idea for adventurers to be able to do basic first aid or possibly even recruit a medic for particularly large groups of comrades. This is assuming, however, that DF players treat their comainions as anything other than meat shields ;).
Also, If dwarven hygiene is ever implemented if your doctor didn't wash his hands he might increase the risk of infection, too, and possibly make everything worse. This is to say nothing of having your dwarves realize that they can decrease the risk of disease by being sanitary. This of course could vary in degree, as dwarves washing the blood and vomit off their faces is a different thing than washing their hands after going to the bathroom or taking baths regularly. Of course, dwarves could be just so tough that unless they're up to their eyeballs in filth they won't tend to get sick. Having dwarves be disease-resistant might even help to balance dwarves against humans (fast breeding) and elves (immortal) in world generation. How sanitary dwarves will be is really a thematic and mood issue (not to mention realism and period-correctness) anyway and up to Toady.
A related issue is how in-period we're willing or wanting to be in terms of Dwarven medical knowledge. If we were going completely in period dwarves would think that disease was caused by bad smells - "miasma" and that putting pus into wounds would help them heal faster. Your dwarves would be bled or given copious amounts of laxitives in a feeble attempt to counteract infections, and sanitation, even in medical practice, would be unheard of. Yuck :P. I think that because middle ages medicine was just that horrible we should be less strict. Sorry middle-ages history sticklers ;). Somewhat useful medicine isn't really that much of a stretch, anyway, as classical civilizations, (Greeks and Romans) as well as other ancient and period cultures outside of Europe had pretty good medicine. Some scraps of knowledge could have survived, and this also creates the rather amusing situation of searching ancient ruins or trading for medical advice. However, the validity of that advice would of course depend on what philosopher you listened to, as some had some really terrible ideas, and the lack of scientific method in that time period let them run wild. Even with that said,  the hippocratic oath- to first do no harm- came from ancient times, and is sworn even in modern medical practice. So, as long as you don't assume a horrible dark age followed the fall of all civilization in every generated world, you have quite a bit of wiggle room in terms of what medicine can really do, even in a "medieval fantasy" setting. In my humble opinion it would be okay to gloss over how horrible medicine really was in a historically accurate setting in the pursuit of making the game fun.
However, the complete opposite viewpoint could be true, and what people thought cured disease in period actually did help in the Dwarf Fortress universe. For example, giving people magic talismans to ward off miasmatic fumes would actually be a valid public health strategy, bleeding people or using leeches would cure diseases, and soap wouldn't really help to prevent disease. This would be a pretty interesting perspective, but in the long term I think the best road would be if both treatments were essentially valid to some extent after magic is implemented. This could lead to awesome things involving reality-fantasy crossover like being able to use magic spells to sanitize a wound or prevent pain, having only really legendary doctors/alchemists/biomancers or artifact medicine able to heal wounds directly, or have strange moods that could create magic golem-like or mechanical prosthetic limbs or organs that would restore (or possibly even enhance) the abilities of your dwarves.
I think a innovative and cool mix of realistic medicine and fantasy healing magic would be awesome, and I think this really fits the mood of Dwarf Fortress. This isn't to say you need 19th century medicine and throw period out completely, but it would be cool if doctors/ healers blurred the lines between magic and medicine, with it actually working. Even though some sort of weird industrial-age steampunk setting would be cool, that's not what I'm suggesting as I don't think that's really in the mood of Dwarf Fortress in the near future.
Yeah, that was kind of all over the place :). Hopefully that made some sense to some people. I hope the pain meds aren't messing with my brain too much, as I just got my wisdom teeth out  :-X.

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