Bay 12 Games Forum

I actually kinda think Tric should potentially trade that rifle to NJW, for NJW to have the option to plink away at Toons.

I know of one Page I never want to see moved, unless NJW explains why it should.  My ears are open, if that happens.  One way to help ensure it never moves without NJW choosing to move it is for NJW to have a lot of items, so even if somehow a thief, non-targeted item exchange, my movement of items, or other 'lose some stuff' weirdness happens, - it's more likely to move one of NJW's other many items, not the Page.

Also, we now know that if NJW had moved the Page before getting rid of that valuable item, he's still have it, we'd just have two Pages.  So if he's anti-town trying to get rid of a hot potato, that was a problem.  He's probably not anti-town, but I can still see reasons why he's playing the seriously down low innocent.  If so, this solves very late game, when we decide who's the last to get elimed out, and hopefully our remaining anti-town are detectable, even already detected if not certain.

If I get the airsoft before NJW does, it becomes free for anyone to use.  if I then trade it to him, he can free-levelup off Toony and do whatever else he can do with his unknown night action(s).

If we just trade the airsoft to NJW as is, it costs him an action to use to get an extra 'safe to lose if non-targeted theft comes' item per night, unless and until someone else makes it free to use.

But it has no spheres.  It would need special targeting to become free; FoU's method can't work.  Or special handling - Right now everything I personally control becomes free.

So we can keep it requiring an action to use if we want, and I'm never knowingly allowing any targeting of NJW unless stuff goes insane and that looks town to me to allow, cause, knowingly trigger.

We haven't heard much from NJW, and he said maybe we discuss protection later.  If so he leads that discussion, I don't know what he 'needs'.  But NJW, if your plan involves there being 2 Pages and someone with an unending stream of apples - I know a reason why that can't work.  It's not pro-town for me to say why.  Other things may be possible, but if that's the core of the otherwise looks great plan - sorry, not possible as far as I know for reasons that are not pro-town for me to state.

We can still discuss if you see good reason, I'll discuss everything that isn't for sure anti-town to discuss.  I'll explain why I think pro-town reasons are pro town, for you all to discuss.  But just like only you know how your defenses work, and that's pro town - trust me on the 'actually apple trick+ doubled page is a fail if we want to ensure first and second kills/nightkills are controlled'.

Also, to confirm I received it. It's something Toony can make use of better than anyone else.

Tric, what plan do you recommend for Toony to use for this item?

Delighted and relieved to hear you have it.  That maybe allows me to be less sneaky.  The less evidence we have that someone's using our openly shared plans to effectively break the plan (like if you didn't get the rifle) the clearer the need we may not discuss openly.

I'm still going to be 'town secrets' about some stuff.  We can discuss as needed, if needed.  We together decide the need.

I have answers from the mod.

So, if I take the 'auto item' that dups items that are traded or given out of play, I have my normal control over it.  So I can 'turn it on or off', probably per phase, though I didn't chew through the questions that intense, but it probably means I dup everything I give or trade that phase, or nothing.

I just got it, it's currently 'in play'.  Great, I won't trade or give or 'give' anything that I think is anti-town to dup.

However... nqt tells me that my 'give with a different name', while it has a different name from the start of play - unfortunately is a 'give' for that 'auto item dupper' purposes.  Meaning if I get something I do not want to duplicate but do want to trade or give or 'give' - I must move that 'auto item dupper' first, either out of play, or to another player.

Any of these things are potentially possible for me to do, all in the same phase.  I do have limits, they're pretty broad and flexible except I don't currently have a great way to find and elim anti-town, probably part of why I can do so much - little to none of it without cooperation and/or assistance.  I designed my role around the concept of 'empowering others, be they anyone, though of course I try to only help my allies'.  Apparently nqt said, 'alright, you fool.  Altruism isn't gonna save you; if you want to help them, you help yourself first.  Get your own gas mask on, the plane's in trouble'.  I can breathe, yay.  Outflowing help coming soon, unless we agree nope, don't.

I don't expect to get a way to take out anti-town, I think I'm GOAT JOAT aka Robin Hood as Secret Santa aka whatever my real role name is (it's not Cthulhu of the 13 spheres and 25 actions either, but that's what I was/am scared anti-town can be.)  But I don't think my night play is directly key or core to eliminating anti-town.  I'm the game's biggest distraction, trying to not be too distracting, except as I reveal that I can do this shuffle of stuff, especially in and out of play I think it is gonna look terrifying; I'd rather openly shock and awe you all when we can discuss if anyone wants.

But I will be shuffling stuff unless I have a great reason not to, and I'm trying to do Kansas City Shuffle on anti-town, which I have some chances to do, as well as performing many other pro-town functions.

Oh, and nqt also confirms it is correct that I do not have the airsoft rifle, it successfully left my control as I intended.  Now, where it is, that's for someone else to reveal or not.

For what it's worth, the fact that almost half the players can now kill Elephant Parade means there is little use in lynching Elephant Parade today.
I assume my fellow Elephant Carvers Toonyman & Fallacy agree?

EP is also high on my probably town list.

Most of us have to be town, for that matter.

I love it!

Will we follow the Evil Overlord List?  You'll all have plenty of chances to guide is that way, or not.  It is a suggestions game!  Rubs hands together and gets to happily plotting interesting joy for us all.

Starting to research Grimdark tonight, just in case!

Make most enemies human or at least humanoid. Killing a poor thief should feel worse than killing a strange monster.

Make actual monsters rare and dangerous. Keep their nature mysterious. Never call a monster by it's name...

More suggestions fully welcome!  I expect to leave this voting stage open until late Friday/Saturday, unless we get several suggestions before then.

And trying to think through all the lines and pressures.

Somehow I gained an item last night that causes anything I give or trade to become duplicated.

I also gained the expected two items that EP said EP lost, so I don't think I took it from EP.

As far as me and the EP-items go, I have a way to 'give' that is not named give.  And not because I changed the name.

I mentioned trade, but I wasn't thinking about that newly given/gained item when I said that.  If I trade those items, while I have this other thing, they'd duplicate.  So I should not trade them, but I can use the 'not called give' way to give them, which should not trigger this duplicating item that triggers on give or trade.

I do not know if I can take that item out of play AND use it when I choose but not when I don't - because it has an auto on it; it's an 'auto item'.  I can control that with most items.  If I can control this so well, I can safely trade things that are dangerous to duplicate, because I wouldn't allow it to dup them, but there's really nearly no way to prove that and it may not work that way for me, or that perfectly, it's a weird item.  I'll be asking nqt.

I didn't ask to be 'too powerful to be allowed to live'.  I'm sorry I am terrifying.  But what I know about what I can and could do, is why I was so scared of scum and so insistant we don't have time to let them grow.

I am committed to pro-town everything.  I'm shockingly powerful; I haven't even close to full claimed.  But it's all fluff, without extreme luck.  I can't go find or kill the scum, as is.  The item that NJW traded to me that I took out of play last night, it uses 'bullets'.  The more it has, the harder it has to use.  I've mentioned I can reload shots - that's adding more.  I believe I can just put more and more bullets in the darn thing, making it safer for the target should anyone ever use it (not my intention that it ever gets used).  I have a lot of stuff to do that has nothing to do with finding scum, and I'd love to see what this game might be like if we made it to N20 (random number, 19 would be great, 10 would be great, last night was great).

Hopefully, if we lose control over the Page or the Page is a trick/lie, scum will be so scared of course they take me out, and I can offer that 'protection' to the rest of you.  I hope no pro-town is that convinced I gotta die.  I'm just... 'overpowered', apparently I got the full pile of sticks, and I have no idea why you guys got so little.

Starting tonight, if I live to tonight, I'll add 2 new artefacts to the game, going to someone not-me.  No idea what they do, if they're good or not.  If you don't want this done, talk.

It appears that now might be a wise, potentially pro-town time for me to reveal more about my remove item from play function.

It's selective, works differently for me than the rest of you.

Any item I remove from play, is out of play for the rest of you, as far as I know.  As in, can't steal it, trigger it, whatever.

I can, under some circumstances, use it for various purposes including uses you probably could not do with it; however I cannot trade it.  However, I can potentially use items I have removed from play.  Exactly if, when, and how I can use them is complicated, and there's conditions when I can't.

I can potentially give those items and use 'variants of give' with those items, so anything I remove from play can come back into play if I choose.

If I die, I take the items with me out of the game.  There are circumstances I intend to control where they could re-enter play, distributed to everyone but me, while I'm still alive.  Insofar as possible, I'm controling those circumstances really well.

Word of scum, and scum we know needed to find folks with specific spheres to have any hope of targeting kills, but...

It must most likely be a "vulnerability" sphere, right? Does anyone else have a "vulnerability" sphere ability? I'm not trying to rolefish here, but I could potentially handle this.

Quote from: FallacyofUrist on January 30, 2024, 10:19:52 pm

Fine, I'll bite, if only to get more information out of you. What exactly are you proposing?

I can remove your ability and replace it with an ability that is more good and less bad. Hopefully. I have no actual control over what you get except at the sphere level.

You know, it does occur to me, though.

Fallacy, if you really have such an auto, you could tell me a relevant sphere on it. I could potentially change it to something else that might be less destructive.

I have no idea what it'll do! It's a secret to everyone! It'll definitely stop being the sphere I use, though, so presumably it will no longer make you vulnerable.

Any other spheres you want cleaned off it? I'm not saying precisely what I can do, but let's go with, there's possibly more than nothing, and I'm gonna use a shot on this so it might as well count.

I note the 'use a shot on this'.

I have no idea how to read known scum MS who plays so fast and loose with truth and lie.