Bay 12 Games Forum

Because I find other people more deserving of suspicion?

CM, check everything out, please.  Explore, question, learn.  But when it is time, and before day end.

D1, you helped me.  D2, please consider helping me again the same way?  I'm equally sure, for all I could be wrong. The evidence is as strong - or stronger.  If I don't change my vote, when its time will you please seriously consider joining me again?

That said, NJW.  This is a lot of evidence.  If I misunderstand, get in here and save your town self.  I will absolutely listen.  Misunderstandings and confusions happen. I do not want pro-town dead.

I'm really concerned about NJW2000's shifty attitude regarding that Page.  I can be wrong, sure.  I could have been wrong about web, I'm town.  But I read deep anti-town focus, and it concerns and bugs me.

I'm glad for NJW to have more time to discuss, explain, and ease those concerns.  But he's a very low poster, most of his town-cred with me came from possible very pro town with secrets play -

Read me in Max's Supernormal for how I treat shifty town, how I treated nqt in that game.  I left him totally alone, defended him, and he kept doing pro-town stuff, even with low posts.

I 100% was and kinda still am prepared to give NJW the same benefit and acceptance.  Do townie stuff, earn townie rewards.  He was extremely high on my town list, and lost it all with a set of scummy things D2, match by 'that doesn't look great in combo D1 either' and matched by my weak read of the NJW/web interactions D1.  I'm not good at reading player/player yet.  But dang, the set of choices regarding second wincon handling, the multiple conflicting claims about ideas how to handle the Page and the apple, I wish I had more meta understanding of NJW, maybe I go read a few games, probably a good idea.

I would love for NJW to actually be pro-town.  I was confident of this until I saw the waffling and the wincon stuff, that wincon claim feels deeply false to me.  Nothing else NJW has said feels like a lie - that does.  Especially the later part of the claim, the reasons for why to say it here and now.  That feels deeply fake to me.  Does not feel like the rest of NJW's communication style.  The Page handling stuff feels like manipulation/scum trying to shift for better options 'you don't really mean you think I'm gonna hold this, no no and you let that apple go too'.

Maybe that can get cleared up.  But based on all I've read from the very low-posting NJW, it's actually quite anti-town in drive and intent.

I kinda think we have more to discuss, in particular what else Max should do if we do remove NJW.  That's the Page - if he has it and didn't give it to someone hiding it, and I think he's an anti-town who wants to take us all out.  So if no page, do we remove kills?  I kinda think this should maybe be discussed.

I hope we do what is likely to hurt anti-town the most, if we can figure that out.

If we can't figure that out ... I dunno.  Looking over the spheres I don't have a suggestion other than kill.  I personally don't want to be changed much if at all, and kill won't affect me (maybe affect that gun, that's fine with me).  Is anyone unhappy with some part of their role and wants something else to do, until they change again in some crazy way?  This game seems to have a lot of ways to change things.

At this point, I think I can say that if anyone other than Max is voted, then I'll shoot Toony.

Well, if NJW is elim and flips scum, my sus of Toony increases, but isn't sure.  Hope we have more time before the hammer for everyone to talk and think.

If we elim Max, then kills don't go away.  So I don't think if we elim anyone else BUT Max that you can actually complete that kill unless Max agrees it's the right call.

Even if NJW flips scum, I'm still not sure about Toony.  I can see Toony being innocent even there.  NJW's lie-feel about the second wincon stuff is my main actual sus of Toony, + low level of involvement D2.  Everyone who fought to save web shows some signs of that.

Happy talking everyone!

Confirm I have never been able to do anything about items and probably never will, so this one is staying.

As far as I know (Nothing about MS's abilities) items are abilities, they just can pass around.  Do you know if you specifically do not affect spheres on item abilities?  If so, that's nice to know.  In part I'd wanted to suggest maybe Toony check the kill sphere N2, which can confirm if it disappears before or after he cops (I don't particularly care if he shares with the class, but that's useful info to know for hunters and huntees), and also potentially if my taking an item out of play happens before or after he cops, which I don't have to know (he has at least 2 ways to share without sharing with everyone, if that's a concern).  I expected to myself check if my remove from play happens before or after your alteration, but if that expressly leaves items alone, nothing to check there.

I remain committed to avoiding using, allowing, causing, or triggering kills while I believe that Page remains in play and being used in a pro-town way.  Whatever I do with that or any kill item should it come into my hands, it won't get stolen from me, and I will not allow it to kill while I understand that Page is doing what it should in someone else's hands.

CM, I'm sure your ears perk up.  It won't hurt you to steal from me if you choose, but you may find the results surprising and probably not to your goal.  But if I trust you, I'm very likely later (not N2) to give you stuff, as well as offer to trade you stuff.

Although I do have one now with Elephant's Town Hall ability.

I wonder if the one that NJW got has a theft ability, since that's the other 'I used this' ability between CM and EP, and CM got hers through theft, so hers is likely real.  I wonder if Toony's counts as a 'fake', I don't know anything about fake items except the roleflip.

If I happen to be alive start of D3:

It is extremely likely that FoU's dup will have become a free action.

I do not intend to use it tonight, if I do it won't be free action for whomever gets it next, it'll eat an action.

But if I'm alive N3, I absolutely will use it and pass it to whomever it goes to, it will remain free action until someone changes that.

N

You happened to list spheres that make a plausible path in the upper right corner, so it really seemed strongly suspicious.

Not how my mind works.

Us finding real scum probably matters.  Fun as it is to make plans for the future, it's very much ticktock and for all 'slow' is a sphere, I swear it seems slow got corrupted.  I am very up for 'let's make stuff better' but very much as a secondary that doesn't get in the way of 'whoops, can't proteck Mafia this time, even if we do it every time'.

I'm joking about slow not being very slow in practice, and the intense pressure I feel to make sure scum that grow don't outgrow means to kill them.

That Page if it can control MK/normal kill seems very important, different strats to use if it is in play or not.  No kills if it's in play.

I'm trying to keep it in play.  It won't be if I need to receive it.  Something else will be done with it, pro town and not saying what except it's better it stays in NJW's hands unless he's anti-town, in which case kill him, while sure an item in my hands is useful, that's freaking fluff and we don't have time, I don't think.  On the way to killing anti-town, if I pick up a few items or more than a few, sweet, I'll be passing the useful ones back to the rest of the class once I can.

Toons, why do you keep thinking that the wishbone 'randomizes' a target?  That's not true at all, based on the item description, right?

Or did I misunderstand CM?  But you've seen this item, Toons.  Does it mess with the intended target, or just force a use of an action?  Might want to ask nqt for your own understanding in case you use it ever.  This could be a way to cause certain types of extra actions in controlled or uncontrolled ways.

Which makes me confused about NJW's claim about use of his.

Question. Euchrejack would have died if Fallacy died right? And then revived I'm guessing?

EJ never claimed that.  FoU claimed dies if EJ dies, and not an issue anymore.

Bleeeh I'll have more detailed thoughts later I don't feel like it.

I hope this makes you feel like it.  Need you.  Every player that dies messes me up.  I'm budgeted for anti-town.  If you're town, act it.  Pull out of your mood and help town, because town needs you.  It's been -days-.  You're no scummier than Max.  Read my advice to him.  Translate it to apply to yourself and use it.  You're better than this.  Save me from the scum, because I have to pick them out of the class.  I can give you extra rope, I did.  How the flip are you using it?  Apply this to yourself too.  You're town until you're not, town doesn't coast.  Fix this, so I don't have to see your town flip and be so disappointed.  There's still time, just know I'll pure read you to your core.  Show it in your play.  I don't really care about connection to NJW.  I trust my pure reads.  Give me lots to read?  Play normal for you?

Now that I think about it my Bible Page is amazing for NJW because it's not like it goes away. Anybody who tries to interfere with the Bible Page is scum.

As I walk away to take that break, this calls me back.  If NJW is scum and Toony is too, then scum doesn't need to see the page, they know.  Fewer reasons to trade it between them, except to maybe keep control.  I'll mull on this, bye.