Bay 12 Games Forum

Red Agents are part of the MAFIA.
So long as a Team can win, the game will not end. If the day rolls over into Saturday without a wining Team, the Mafia wins by default. (Friday 10 AM > Saturday 10 AM being an example final day.) Once all anti-town are lynched or killed, Town wins. If you can't, Town loses.

Right. So Quarque is teamscum, which is what I thought.

Which means that Imp's whole thing about "needing to find the other anti-town" is just blowing smoke.

Imp, in the unlikely event that you are actually town, you're hurting town here. With this information, do you change your mind about anything at all?

If you think I'm partnered with Quarque

What I think happened, because Tric does not say there that 'team members will know the other team members', and tremendously more because of the events of D1.

I think Max is the thief.  And thought he was solo scum, kill everyone else (No idea how it is worded).  Maybe had a clue to look for ally, probably not given the D1 behavior.

There's only 7 of us.  How many anti-town do we need?  I think one or more is reasonable, and clearly we have 2 or more.

And then Qua said:

when I flip you'll see I'm third party with a stupidly difficult win condition that I was never going to fullfill. Survive and find the thief and kill everyone else. After asking the DM for clarification a few times I still don't understand how that's supposed to work and I'm happy with a D1 elim tbh. quarque

And then Max said:

Oliverz144, then.

If it's a gambit, then I'm proud of you and you deserve a second try.

I think Max had no idea there was more than 1 antitown.  I think that's the moment when Max said 'Oh, I got an ally'.

I'm not certain, but all that smoke Max blows, I think it's genuine that he would have played different, and Qua too, if they started 'teamed like normal'.  I don't think they're teamed.  I don't think they had a shared chat.

So Max is doing damage control to hide and confuse about this, and I'm trying to sweep away the mess and say "Okay, so this isn't town play from Max, really darn sure and getting more sure as Max keeps trying to dig this hole deeper, this is not pro-town concern at all, none of it."

Quote from: Imp on February 20, 2024, 08:09:55 pm

My flavor does not contradict that information in any way.

The following doesn't fully add up:

Quote from: TricMagic on February 20, 2024, 10:06:59 am

Your Butler is unaware of your existence on the boat due to hypnosis performed upon them.

Quote from: Imp on February 20, 2024, 04:54:28 pm

My flavor makes it clear I have an employer, doesn't tell me anything about who.  Makes it clear I'm absolutely and completely that person's servant.  And that my job includes making sure nothing bad happens to my employer.

You'll see it more clearly in my flip or after the game, I'm not going to quote a DM.  Tric wrote it; I have it.

An example paraphrase which is not a quote:

My role name
You are an excellent butler that never fails your employer.  You make sure to care and protect them always.

My wincon

My auto
My day

If you're town

Nah.  Everything you're saying is supposition, guesses, and probably manipulation.

See, I'm town.  I have no control over what Qua did or said.  Or what role I was given, what its flavor is, or any of it.

I may die as town, or not, because of the complexity of the game, the roles, the flip so far, the night actions.

I'm mystified what sof learned D1, if anything, that makes sof so interested in what I did D1.  Sof really hammered that concern.  I don't get why, and I don't want to out anything townie and ideally secret of sof, my only concern about it was 'is this scum hunting for why the kill was stopped, who stopped it and how, who do I need to kill since I couldn't kill NJW'.

As for my targeting - as D1 drew to a close, I anxiously saw that Oliver was long time offline.  I did think Qua was antitown.  My top antitown concerns were Max and Oliver.

I can stop a kill; no idea who Oliver would target with his 1 post early D1, if he's scum.

But Max - NJW is my top town pick, and NJW was openly sus of Max, which I was not.

Max was not openly sus of me - he was voting and talking Qua then voting and not talking Oliv.  Private sus happens, but the NJW-Max and my reasonable townread of NJW was why I picked NJW to protect.

The lack of a kill D1 and my knowing NJW was protected, makes me think either Oliver didn't action (maybe Qua partner, but I think there's no true mafia 'team', no true partners, maybe there is) or that Max targeted NJW.  I'm quite sure Max would action D1.

I don't think "I can prevent someone from killing" is a claim Max would hide like he did for so long D2, not with a open cop claim and then an open doctor claim.

Instead, Max drives for my D2 elim as an absolute priority.  If I flip town, sure, plans for that.  Kill Imp, says Max.

I think Max needs Imp dead because Max evaluates he can't survive a game with Imp alive - and it's not because he thinks I am scum.

I remember catfia, where Max took out every townie that would have fought him, one at a time as we stepped up.  Shame that.

Hope it doesn't happen again here.

Quote from: Imp on February 20, 2024, 08:09:55 pm

I wonder.  Max, does this mean you were sure that Qua was gonna die today then?

At that point, it looked likely, but I knew I could change my mind any time I wanted if that seemed to change. I ended up not changing my mind.

Sure.

I wonder if you're lying about this, because at the time you were saying stuff like

Quote from: NJW2000 on February 20, 2024, 05:41:40 am

If he's going to claim SK, I think we probably need to elim him. I'm not going to understand if people disagree.

Personally, I'd rather lynch the thief first if possible. A demoralized, outed SK doesn't matter that much and can probably be vigged in the night anyway. I won't say no to a Quarque lynch, but it seems like a waste.

If you think he's an SK, then you don't think he has a partner.  If you think he's maybe going to live, then you likely want to stop the SK from killing.  Either way, I think your claim to target me with a 'can't kill' is unlikely and a lie of convenience made under pressure.

I sure hope we're not two town going at it.  But you do look very scum to me.

Hmm...

Not much time and about to go to bed, posting after one read-through.

...

Please don't hammer in my absence.

I'm at L-1 again.  Whatever you do is what you do.  Be ready to do your best for a town win, whatever the heck you do; most of you are town.

Imp: [3] Maximum Spin, sofanthiel, Crystalizedmire
Maximum Spin: [1] Imp,
Oliverz144:
CrystalizedMire:
sofanthiel:
NJW2000:

I desperately hope the actual anti-town isn't CM playing awesome.  Making sure there's plenty of suspects, and inching along.  CM's still my second-highest town pick though.

Quote from: Imp on February 20, 2024, 07:55:19 pm

Cool.

Why'd you pick me to target for that?

I've clearly explained why you were Quarque's most logical partner after yesterday's interaction.

By the way, did you forget, when you shade me for changing my vote, that you switched off Quarque too, and earlier?

Honestly, if your goal here is to convince me that you're being too stupid to be scum, it's kind of working, but unfortunately, I still think that's worth a lynch.

Cool, so, when did you target me?

0_0

Imp

What the hell kind of benefit do you think I got that would justify that bus?

I have no clue.

I don't think that Qua knew who his partner was.  Qua seems to have jumped off a cliff with both feet, self voting, saying a lot about his wincon, and seeing who tried to help.

Despite your earlier response to Qua, I wonder if this is kinda like you going webadict saving on Qua.

Now I die on the hill of Max vs Oliv.

Oliv's been on today, after D2 started.  Still hasn't posted.  Everything looks consistent to a Oliv being scum.  Talk or die bud.
Max has not been on since D1 ended, roundabouts.  Is super sus.  Behaved perfectly consistently if Qua and Max are not teamed but are both anti-town, and Max and Qua need to find each other.  Qua said "I'm your bud" and Max said....

Quote from: Maximum Spin on February 20, 2024, 01:52:25 am

Oliverz144, then.

If it's a gambit, then I'm proud of you and you deserve a second try.

Quote from: Maximum Spin on February 20, 2024, 06:10:03 am

Quote from: NJW2000 on February 20, 2024, 05:41:40 am

If he's going to claim SK, I think we probably need to elim him. I'm not going to understand if people disagree.

Personally, I'd rather lynch the thief first if possible. A demoralized, outed SK doesn't matter that much and can probably be vigged in the night anyway. I won't say no to a Quarque lynch, but it seems like a waste.

Quote from: Maximum Spin on February 20, 2024, 08:31:08 am

Quote from: NJW2000 on February 20, 2024, 08:15:24 am

I guess I understand that impulse. As things stand, would an Oliverz elim be more worthwhile?

Only extremely slightly, but I'm working with what I've got.

And then Max bails end of day, which if Max is anti-town, that's a lost partner that wasn't saved, and Max is again in a last-game-like position where he visibly tried to save Web and then, D2...

Quote from: Maximum Spin on February 06, 2024, 04:46:45 pm

Quote from: NJW2000 on February 06, 2024, 04:45:18 pm

I like Max proposing the no elim here, I think, as I imagine him being passive at this point as town-elim. Not sure if I’ve seen it happen though… yeah, hard to say.

The word you're looking for is "utterly crushed". It's happened a few times, but I'm not sure if you were ever there.

I'm extremely open to the idea that Max may also be a godfather.

Why did you do that, Max?  Why make those posts, give those reasons, with that timing, despite what you describe of your own behavior:

And keep in mind that, in any world where I'm scum, I just set my partner, my free-killing partner, not only that but my free-and-frame-killing partner, on fire for absolutely no reason in the world. I didn't have to vote Quarque immediately and start a wagon. I didn't have to clearly set off my vote change with repeated insistence that I wasn't asking anyone else to change votes. I could have made the slightest token effort to save Quarque. I could have just had Quarque bus me, a one million times more suspicious player by nature, for massive towncred that would probably win the game with that setup. I could even have stuck to my vote to the end so it at least didn't look so overtly shady

I don't see you setting your partner on fire.  I see you setting off a lot of smoke.

Laconic's darn hard.  This is my first game where I was miller, first where I claimed miller, first where I've full claimed in response to being about to be lynched.

Fun stuff, probably muddies how you read me.

The flip straightens all that out.  I'm doing my best to make it clear for after I'm gone, if I go, however I go - same as every game I play, every day of it.

Sof, Max's weird stuff there, that Oliver asks about - you're cool with it?  That's interesting, but cool.

Quote from: Maximum Spin on February 20, 2024, 04:41:01 pm

I used my ability on Imp during the previous day.

The way I see it, there are - let me copy sofanthiel and do three main possibilities:

• Imp is scum.
• oliverz144 is scum and missed the night. But why would Quarque jump in front of a bus for no reason at all to save a partner who isn't playing, with that entirely decent ability set?
• NJW2000 is scum and did a really great gambit I'm very proud of him for.

wait what
what does this mean

And does it matter that you're not answering Oliver either?

Right. So Quarque is teamscum, which is what I thought.

Which means that Imp's whole thing about "needing to find the other anti-town" is just blowing smoke.

Imp, in the unlikely event that you are actually town, you're hurting town here. With this information, do you change your mind about anything at all?

Sorry, only smoke I see is coming from you.  Self serving, self protecting, avoidant, not helping.

I believe this is the current vote count.

Oliverz144:
Maximum Spin: [1] Imp,
CrystalizedMire:
sofanthiel:
NJW2000:
Imp: [1] Maximum Spin,

I wonder why max doesn't want to claim what he did to me when he targeted me.

If we let him live, I think we MUST get a provable action from him, because I think he targeted NJW for a kill last night, which I prevented.

I know I prevented NJW from dying if he could have been killed, I just don't know if anyone actually tried to kill him.

I think Max lied about targeting me (he did that last game too, he was scum and D2, said he would have killed me N1; in fact he killed Qua N1.  This game I think he targeted NJW N1, and says he targeted me).

Anyway, we should get proof of what Max does, if the collective will of us all is allowing him to still be alive past D2.