Bay 12 Games Forum

Would you like for me to re-post where I explained why I think you're scum?

If you think you already did that, no.  I've already read it.  I don't read it as 'I think imp is scum' and especially not 'for reasons'.

I have no idea if talking to you even can be productive.

This one's just insult/bullying/you venting hostility, and it's false.

I'll start off with the obvious part of that no one really needs a case against you.

This one's just insult/bullying/you venting hostility, and it's false.

Your removal is a net benefit to Town regardless of whether you are Town or not.

This one's a you problem, and something you should maybe work on, because it can drive players away from the game.  Wonder if I'm the only one you find so impossible to tolerate?

Personally, I want to policy-execute you every game, and I try hard to fight the itch of immediately calling for your execution at the beginning of games.

This one's a you problem, and something you should maybe work on, because it can drive players away from the game.  Wonder if I'm the only one you find so impossible to tolerate?

It biases my judgment, and it doesn't make you get any better, so I generally just try to ignore you, lest I unleash a torrent of probably deserved insults your way.

This one's false, ignores my reasoning and actual case.  You are correct, my timing fits your statement here, but no, that is not my reason or my only reason.  And I've stated my case against you.

However, the issue here is that the only reason you're really voting for me is that I insulted you.

You can say that, doesn't make it true.  I mean, there's even a name for this kind of attack and illogic.

The reason I believe that is because your evidence continues to fall apart upon any amount of scrutinizing or interrogation.

Not particularly, but I do look for information at all times.  And this is NAI, for me and others.

You are looking for evidence after-the-fact.

Not sure of your reasoning here, but the whole of your 'case' as to 'why I am scum' hasn't even been made yet.

It does not appear to factor into your decision at the moment.

It may feel this way to you.  You're wrong.  And I don't 'always' go for you.  I am genuinely concerned about you, and increasingly so, this game.

This makes your case feel disingenuous, and it's not particularly surprising, since I'm always an easy target because people can't read me.

This is interesting.  Do you think it's because you can 'refill Qua, under some circumstances, and think Qua can stop the mafia kill?'  I'm not convinced that Qua directly said that, and meant it as a blanket case.  Qua specifically said they might be able to save toony, and definitely would be able to stop the mafiakill, but is that even correct?  Does Qua even know?  I think the two are linked.  I wonder if Qua misread what Toony said and thought the mafiakill for sure would be coming at Toony, which maybe Qua means Qua can do something about.  Your presumptions about this remind me of scum Hector last game, presuming and puffing up my claim of being able to 'cure the poison'.  Totally not what I said there, very scummy, very scummy of you too.  And Hector was scum when he misread and abused my statements there too, and you're doing a very similar garbage presumption claim of what Qua said.

Or maybe you mean you have some other way to stop it.  Great.  Hope you do, if you're alive to.  If it looks like you're working for town, if you're pro-town, I won't go for you.  I'm going for you because of your anti-town-ness this game, in what I read of your posts and evaluations of others, and where your attention seems to be.

Additionally, I have a way to help stop the Mafiakill, and you seem to completely not care about this.

But I don't have it/one.  And what you focused on was again, a misread of an ability that would not have worked as you state, and could have set up for a lot of problems for town/protected scum.  It's highly abusable, and awful strategy, to my read.  And my comparison to an item that could instant win - that's hypothetical.  I don't have one.  You misrepresent massively and without concern for town.

I could use the argument that you freaked out about having an instant win for Town, but I don't really care about that one.

Sure, but again, this is not how or why I'm scum.

The alternative take is that I find you incompetent, but both can be true.

None of your 'case for why I am scum' is 'evidence I am scum', as I understand that evidence.  Half of it's direct insult, and calls for my death no matter my role.  The other half is incorrect/bias/opinion/your emotion and nothing to do with if I'm scum or not.

FoU -

What do you think the downsides are for you, if Max is indeed able to change your auto into something that doesn't bind your life to another players, and uses it?

Is there anything about that auto you like having?

About the web stuff, I read web as wanting me and sof dead (and we think he's scummy) and NJW dead (who said could help or hinder web's search for emeralds, and currently intended to hinder unless web helped kill scum).  I asked web for reads, especially of me, who he's voting, and if I understand him, he hates my typing and wants me dead town or not.  If he dies, he's cool with it, long as I die too - he doesn't even care if I'm town or not.  If he's town, he's cool with 2 dead town D1, long as I'm one of them.  Why are you reading this person as town?  Why are you ignoring all this anti-town focus?

Crymea's arguments
or what?

Definitely noticed.  Not sure what to think about it.  I have never yet liked much I've seen from CM any D1, but I liked them considerably much before their death in your game, considered them acceptably pro-town by mid-late D3.  So I don't rush my read of CM, because D2/D3 I was voting sof to pressure CM (CM was pulling a Fal without the "I die without my partner", but still doing the 'kill me not him' if you gotta kill one of us) and quite happy to have them both go (D3 CM was dying for an unrelated reason).

Seemed like you were actually trying to find information. It's mostly vibes though.

Thank you.  And I wasn't looking for information before those posts that you noticed?

To me, these don't stand out as especially helpful relative to their previous posts. OK.

I was wondering about that too.  CM, would you please explain what is helpful in those posts, and how it helps?

Quote from: Maximum Spin on January 30, 2024, 09:18:35 pm

Quote from: FallacyofUrist on January 30, 2024, 09:15:39 pm

If Jack dies, so do I. So uh, I'm pretty reluctant to let him die unless we're totally sure he's scum. And so far, he's played totally townie, even with the lack of energy, but meta tells are half-garbage anyways.

(As far as I know, if I die, the same doesn't happen to him, though, it's purely a one-way self-destructive relationship.)

Isn't this just a reason for me to switch to you?

Sure, sure, vote me if you wish, I still think you're scum. Since Toony's read on you is baffling to me, I think it could be you and Toony. Whether there's a third member, or it's a two teams of two situation, I don't know yet.

Quote from: Imp on January 30, 2024, 09:18:13 pm

Okay, Fal.  Now, are you willing to discuss how/why?

is this an auto, an item, something else?

Auto. I'd rather not share my exact spheres, since I imagine there will be abilities that target based on them, but, well, you can probably guess.

Got it.  I have no advice at this time, just more questions, and I don't care about the spheres, can imagine a range of them could cause it, and I'm not a sphere-hunter, least not that I know of.

So, do you have any indication if EJ is the same alignment as you, or not?

If yes, are you willing to tell us anything about why you think EJ has your same alignment?

Webadict bad vote.

What is your confidence level on this, from personal read, and separately, from mechanics estimate/certainty?  And if you account for the possibility that emeralds could have more than one intended purpose, does that change the level of confidence (I cannot confirm if emeralds have more than one intended purpose, but can you rule that out?)

Quote from: Quarque on January 30, 2024, 08:37:34 pm

Sofanthiel is almost certainly town. Scum!Sofanthiel is anything but audacious.

Quote from: Maximum Spin on January 17, 2024, 02:14:20 pm

A loud whistling sound is heard as sofanthiel releases a smokescreen which covers webadict. webadict can no longer be lynched today.

Qua, yeah.  I've seen scum sof be audacious twice in a row now.

That and FoU's game:

Quote from: Secretdorf on December 25, 2023, 11:06:15 am

I think what Sofanthiel's doing here is called scumclaiming.

That is not at all the case.  I understand why you'd get such an idea, however; my unwillingness to lay out all the cards might come across as untrustworthy.

Quote from: Elephant Parade on December 25, 2023, 12:26:10 pm

Sofanthiel: I didn't read you as scum D1, but your recalcitrance since has me reconsidering. It's not the lack of activity, it's the caginess. Explain yourself or I'll vote you.

Quote from: hector13 on December 25, 2023, 01:12:24 pm

One might suggest, if you are town, you stop wasting that time and reveal what you know so we can actually find scum.

The reason behind the ambiguity is that revealing the nature of my role and what I've been working towards would benefit those I oppose more than my own team.  If anything, scum having that information would harm town more than my demise ever could, which is why all I can do is request I be left alive without providing the details you all demand.

Quote from: Secretdorf on December 25, 2023, 12:17:46 pm

Canadian Kitten did catch him red handed

Whatever transpired last night, as bad as it makes me look, could be explained by a multitude of intricate interactions that have the capacity to happen.  Even I, with a more complete picture of the situation (on account of knowing my own abilities), am not exactly certain what caused such an outcome.

I live, I die, I live again!

sofanthiel was executed. sofanthiel was Mafia.

But for all I know, it's also a sof attitude now.  I lean scum on sof, but I wouldn't mind seeing more.  Max's last game where sof started as... I have no idea what sof's initial alignment officially was, because Max never shared that, and sof never did that I saw either, but CM claims he was town ally at first (like she was later confirmed to be).  But early, I thought CM and sof were both very scummy.  Even after I was okay with CM, sof still seemed really scummy.  It was later that he was converted and definitely anti-town.