Bay 12 Games Forum

Do you see the problem or not? Do you think that's an invalid line of reasoning or just that everyone is insistent on ignoring your brilliant insights?

I see the problem with my argument, but I do not think it's an invalid line of reasoning. I think it's a problematic line of reasoning, but it's not invalid. I won't bring it up again.

Which is? I don't seem to recall it, and going back a few pages didn't turn anything up.

His story is untenable due to the information provided by the roleclaims that make his explanations about Bookthras' protection/death more and more tenuous and the suspicious nature of his own pilot claim (which could be used to lure out other pilots for him to be NKed).

The fact that he was not targeted was meant as an addition to the case, but not the central part of it. The roleclaims and his pilot claim makes up the core of my case.

Why didn't this reasoning apply to Imiknorris?

Because Jim did not claim pilot to rolefish for other pilots and there's really only one contradiction between IronyOwl's results and Jim's results, over why you didn't see each other...while Urist had to deal with the protection/death of Bookthras. The cases between Jim and Urist are not comparable.

If you don't think the discrepancy is a problem, why would it be a problem that we don't think the discrepancy is a (lynchworthy) problem?

Because that's...not how these things works. "Town" generally are paranoid, distrust each other, and tend to mislynch each other over silly misunderstandings...this sort of "trust" that you have with each other does not make any logical sense. Yes, there could be some reasoning for why the "discrepancy" happened, but are we to assume that the "discrepancy" just happened for giggles? There must be a reason behind it, but your ability to just slide it on by and push it aside like it's no big deal...that's something that deserve some inquiry.

How long have you cared about this topic?

...Not much, but that's why I asked. You could answer the question, tell me the "town" tells, and if I believed they were sufficient enough, then it'd explain your "buddying", and that'd be end of that questioning. Is it really that hard to explain why you and Jim think each other are town?

WIFOM is the attempt to guess at the behavior of someone who knows you're guessing at their behavior. Assuming scum would do something to avoid detection at the cost of immediate effectiveness would also be 'direct thinking,' but it'd be the polar opposite, and just as much WIFOM, as what you're saying.

Oh. Now I get the objections to what I said before, and now I understand the problem here.

...alright then, so I won't bring that "NK" discussion up again, because even if I'm right, everyone seems to want to dismiss it. I'll stand by the rest of the case on Urist though.

Same question to everyone not voting Jim. Am I really the only one who sees the flashing neon signs saying SCUM JIM all over the place?

Though it is possible, I rather prefer more evidence that it is indeed the case.

Servant, Shakerag, Toaster: What do you make of the Jim-Irony inconsistency?

Because what I know about Dariush (and most of what I've seen of Jim) doesn't like up with Jim being scum. Night actions are potentially wonky enough that I'm not willing to lynch him on that alone, nor do I think he's been lurky enough to lynch him on just that either.

I put faith in my read on a player over role results. It currently says that IronyOwl is not scum. Apparently you don't like the explanations I've proposed for why this is the case. Sadly, I've got no more to offer you. There's obviously something going on for why I didn't see IronyOwl visit, and you can bet whatever way you want and I'll bet whatever way I want.

I'm thinking it's not the inconsistency that's the problem, but the implicit "buddying" that's occurring. It would be natural these two people to be going after each other, not backing each other up and saying that there must be a good reason for why this happened (even if they can't explain why there was no such good reason).

Jim, Irony: Explain to me why you find each other to be not scum. What was the 'town tells' that the other guy "have"?

The capital of Mali is calm today, so it seems that if there was a counter-coup, it must have been crushed. There is still opposition however, as arrested ministers begin a hunger strike and lawmakers condemn the coup.

At least the coup plotters are finally dealing with the insurgency by, uh...talking to them outside of a strategic city the rebels want to conquer?

Something's not right. Something's dreadfully not right. I suppose one may think "something's not right" when a coup occurred mere days before an election, but it could be that the coup plotters disliked the politicians of Mali and believed no change would occur after elections. But when you're outright negotiating with the rebels you said you were going to crush mere days ago...

I think we have until Monday.

unvote
Urist Imiknorris

Assuming I don't get lynched, who should I investigate tonight?

I plan to post once or twice per day. That being said, I was afraid that the activity may require more than just one/two posts per day, activity I cannot sustain, hence why I was concerned about the need to withdraw.

I won't forget about the game for a couple of days.

c) While not titled so, GG's games are generally Quickish games. The intention of such games is to keep activity at a maximum. You cannot just post once or twice, then forget about the game for a couple of days. These games are intended as fast and furious games. If you in, post once, then disappear, you're not just not helping, you're ruining the game for everyone else.

Then I'll withdraw from the game and request a spoilspec because I'm afraid I cannot sustain that level of activity.

This is a flimsy argument. He's scum because he hasn't been targeted?

That's WIFOM. Seeing it spread like this gets me unnerved.

WIFOM occurs if you start overthinking the potential moves of scum or trying to take into account very unlikely and rare possibilities...for example, thinking that Urist wasn't targeted because scum wanted to frame him for being scum, so therefore Urist's town, but that's what scum wants us to think, so of course Urist's scum. (All this, of course, assume that there is someone or some group that can control NKs...but since you guys seem to believe that, then looking at why people were killed...and why they were not is important.)

My case based off more than the fact he wasn't targeted, by the way. There was outcry about Urist's roleclaim back when he did it to try and rolefish and find other pilots, who then died off. I believed he used the pilot claim as a way to justify not lynching him, so he could not contribute. All of this, together, make Urist a scum candidate, not each individual aspect by itself.

Quote from: Servant Corps on March 23, 2012, 08:22:48 pm

Why would captor infiltrators have to be 'aliens'? It's possible for a Doppelganger/Human to try and actively sabotage us in order to help the aliens that previously captured us.

Do you have some privileged knowledge on the subject? You're quick to offer up this as a possibility, but equally quick to discourage the idea that there are infiltrators in our group.

I have no privileged knowledge, except the fact that it's a bastard mod and it's very likely for several roles (like mine) to be made useless.

Quote from: Servant Corps on March 24, 2012, 02:35:30 am

I was voting people not for lurking but to put pressure on them to not lurk but to speak (and now for them to 'double-confirm'). I don't know what would you call that sort of voting behavior though...

What would you have done at day's end if it became clear they weren't going to show, then?

I don't know. I'd probably switch my vote to Urist because I'm not going to let scum win on LYLO and I'm more confident that he's scum than the lurkers are.

Fair enough.