Bay 12 Games Forum

As much as I would like to continue asking questions to Urist and his assumptions about the game setup, I'm a little busy at the moment and can't really do that right now. Since GG had unvoted IronyOwl, I'll vote IronyOwl in the meantime, to pressure him to claim race/role; I don't want scum to lurk and avoid any unwanted attention.

Oh...

I've been trying to make at least one substantial post per RL day during the rest phases.  I have a fairly busy RL schedule that prohibits me from posting as much as many of you.  But, if I recall correctly, I think the last thing I posted was about Dariush pulling a "blackmail the town" gambit. 

Sorry for bugging you again. Just remember to reply to my question.

Because if you have someone who can successfully predict where a kill is going to take place and then block said kill, then that suggests that the kill was not actually randomly decided but instead determined by a player within the game. It doesn't confirm the existence of a 'killing' role, but at least it raises the idea to a level where I'd seriously consider it. Killers could exist without a Guardian, and vice versa, but as there is no evidence for the existence of 'killers', I will still remain convinced that no 'killers' exist (at least until new evidence is presented).

As a side-note: I don't like the idea of second-guessing and spending most of the limited time we have trying to guess what the setting is. I know it's somewhat necessary, due to it being a Bastard game, but too much discussion gives cover for 'scum'-like roles to hide behind and pretend to contribute.

So you think a bunch of our claimed pilots died, just by chance? And that, by chance, no one was killed the other night? It doesn't even matter whether they were pilots, or whether they were all the pilots. All that matters is that all of them, but one, are dead - exactly the result you'd expect if you had a guardian around who could keep someone alive. With a no-night-kill night clearly fitting into the goal of "kill off pilots one by one" and a guardian who noticed the pattern. Followed by a night kill targeting a completely different player, who probably wasn't being protected.

The reason nobody died the other night was due to the shortening (which was mod-confirmed to have done 'something'), which means we have more time to run away from the aliens. The shortening is the more likely explanation for why nobody died, not some 'Guardian'.

If someone roleclaims Guardian, then I'll consider this "captor infiltrators" theory at least plausible, but that also implies the shortening did nothing (and I disagree with that).

And as to the claim - I've already said, I'm waiting for Jim. While my question on you was just to get the new guy talking, I have actually learned something about Jim. And while he's not looking scum at the moment, his response to my question can damn him or clear him in my eyes, depending on how it syncs up with what I know about him.

Alright then.

Servant:  Forgot to ask: did you or Zrk2 choose your N4 inspect?  If you, why?

I chosen it. Why? As I couldn't find anybody scummy at the time and all roleclaimed either already checked or unable to be checked, I randomly selected a target to inspect in the hopes of getting lucky.

GlyphGryph: This assumes that:
1) Pilots exist.
2) All pilots had claimed beforehand.
3) All those who claimed to be pilots actually are pilots.
4) Pilots are sufficiently rare that their target would be of note.
5) Darius is completely accurate when he claims that he killed someone; oh and he could also become a pilot as well, too bad we just lynched him...[/sarcasm]

Random chance is much more plausible because it's what the flavor suggest (we're being chased by aliens, there's no reason for them to have infiltrators) and it is a way to remove a standard method of gathering information. Even knowing that an individual was murdered can grant us valuable information (because we can look at previous posts made by the guy and come up with reasons why he was killed); making it so that murders are random take away that information and forces us into other methods of finding scum. It's the same reason why we haven't seen any roleflips yet.

GlyphGryph: Why haven't you claimed anything yet?

Bookthras: I wanted to interrogate him over his suspicious victory condition. Most of us were survivors, so a non-survivor who's interested in making sure someone escapes does tend to stick out. His death makes such interrogation impossible though. Oh well, if he's telling the truth, then he still have a chance at winning this game.

GlyphGryph: I do not have a killing role, as my roleclaim below will explain.

Urist Imiknorris: I think that the game is doppelgangers versus non-doppelgangers. Both the doppelgangers and non-doppelgangers share the same goal: want to first survive. Once we get to the ship, if there is at least one doppelganger, we'll lose (probably because said doppelganger will infect Earth). Otherwise, we win. The bastard part would be killing all scum before the Sixth Rest Phase, when the game ends. If we can't find the last doppelganger, we're done for.

My evidence is that in Run Phase 1, the fluff said that we are uncomfortable with having doppelgangers on board, and in my role PM, I was told to guard against the possibility of a doppelganger betrayal.

I do not believe the doppelgangers have a night-kill. I also do not believe that doppelgangers even know each other's existence, due to the roleclaims about each doppelganger being in separate pods, so they have to find each other first (or be willing to lynch other doppelgangers in order to preserve their survival and wincon).

Uhh ... was ... was that just a flavor-kill?  Dariush claimed the first two NKs, and Meph is well known to drop hints about the source of a kill in normal Paranormal games ... so has there always been a small chance of any one of us just randomly getting NK'd?  That's a little disturbing to think about. 

I kinda thought that was obvious; there was no real evidence of anyone choosing night-kills other than Dariush' claim (which cannot be verified at all), and since we managed to stay alive because we ran faster than our pursuers due to 'shorterning' the day, I think that the night-kills are random (or controlled by the aliens trying to capture us). Which means that I also treat the "captor infiltrators" theory as dubious; the only scum here are doppelgangers.

Shakerag: Your digression about how it's hard to figure out the bastard setting seems to be taking up space and producing the illusion of contributing, when in fact you're just saying what we already know, if you aren't outright trying to dismiss what we do know (rest-shorten-extend). But, let's build off that. If you cannot figure out the "bastardness" of the setting, then what would you advise the town to do then on this potential LYLO?

Roleclaim: I'm the FBI Agent, who can inspect every run phase and determine what race a player is. My win condition is to Escape. I investigated the following people and got their roles:
-Run Phase 1 - Jim Groovester: Human
-Run Phase 2 - Urist Imiknorris: Alien
-Run Phase 3 - Bookthras: Human
-Run Phase 4 - Toaster: Human
However, I'm also a Kook. If someone inspects me, they will see me as a Doppelganger. It's my own personal understanding that one should always claim Miller-status at start to make sure nobody waste inspections on you, but the fact that most players (including me) are essentially Survivor who are looking out for themselves rather than for a 'Town' may go a long way to explaining why Zrk2 did not claim Kook-status on Rest Phase 1 (he may want to avoid suspicion and getting lynched). I roleclaim Kook now because more information will benefit the town at this point, and there may be more than one individual able to "inspect" other people.

If the "captor infiltrators" theory is true (and it isn't), then knowing the race would give us no insight whatsoever. Anybody can cooperate with the aliens, even the doppelgangers. This could be yet another argument in favor for "doppelgangers as scum" theory, though it is a weak one at best, and I honestly have written better arguments above.

Unlike other "idea guys", he can credibly promise to pay people to work for his project. That doesn't mean it'd work out, but he'd at least will get people to develop his game, as opposed to some random 13-year-old who appears to know nothing and offer "future profits".

In.