Bay 12 Games Forum

(The way to remember this is to remember that a dwarf has to stand in the open tile, and on something, to construct the pump.)

My way of dealing with it is that on any level with a pump, it alternates "_+_+", a channel to suck up at one end, a floor to hold water (to be potentially sucked up) at the other, and the channel in the middle (not adjacent to the other channel) is the one for the power transfer.

If I'm digging out of bedrock, I'll often dig the following, with the entrance from the north being temporary for digging and punmp installation:
### ##
#_+_+#
######
(If I'm smoothing the shaft, I leave the left-hand channel until after I've smoothed the walls that can only be accessed from there.)

Then installing the pump ("pumps from west" in this example):
### ##
#_%%+#
######
Then (for a top-powered system) seal it up.
######
#_%%+#
######
(If I'd have had the entryway one to the left it may have caused problems with trapped dwarfs, beyond the 'power channel' and even the pump-head.  Depending on other factors, but I don't think I'd have needed to seal it, if I remember right.  Though it's a long time since I was so slap-dash about it.)


Then on the level above (note you have problems if you don't make the bottom-most pump first before adding the one above it, before the one above it, etc, but you can start carving it out right from the start, and designate the placement of the new pump before you seal off the level below) you need to head towards:
######
#+%%_#
######
  ^ channel under here

For a built tower, then the idea is similar, except that you're placing floors and walls, leaving voids and gaps, rather than cutting openings and channels, leaving walls and floors.  And this means masons (or carpenters) running in and out with materials, getting in each others' way, rather than miners that you can usually manage with a little mroe ease.

But trial and error is probably the best way to learn.  And to see what I mean (and or really mean, if I'm not explaining it correctly. .

dig a massive underground cavern (taking out even the floors) under the river, then send in the the "noble" to "cut the ribbon" on the river bank. Dig it deep enough and have enough "nobles" to "cut the ribbons" you can send all the water flowing underground for quite a while waiting for it to fill up.

If I've ever felt the need to evacuate a stretch of river, I've set up a line of floodgates/hatches in a 'dry' tunnel alongside the watercourse, as well as the cavern that will act as the 'sponge', and then channelled away the edge of the river so that it is ready to go through the floodgates/hatches when the lever is pulled (you did set up the lever, didn't you? a whole lot of water is dynamic in the direction you want it to go.  (Away.)  Later on, you can close up the floodgates and slowly drain the sink.  Especially if you want to have another go at draining the river and you didn't get enough out the first time round, after enlarging the dried-out 'sponge' reservoir'.

It's a bit more environmentally obvious than a single sink-hole set into the bank, but potentially far more effective/spectacular/overkill.  (It may or may not be the case that you need a length of sink at least equal to the width of the river, but I'd always aim for that, based upon my possibly flawed expectations of DF fluid dynamics.)


I've also heard of burning lumps of lignite (or similar) being dumped in the ocean to insta-evaporate all of it for the several years that it remains on fire.  That might also be a solution to your river problem, if I remember the details correctly...  How you arrange for the that to happen is down to you.

Mail! (as in, the armour)

Hmm, that came to my mind too.

There you go!
Also a good link: http://www.mailleartisans.org/

Must have a look at those.  I'm largely self-taught, and I bet I'm doing something wrong (for now ignoring gross anachronisms like using galvanised steel or anodised copper wire. .

I've a feeling that paper money might not fit the DF era.  Which is not to say that some sort of less formal "promisary note" issue can't be spun by a sufficiently advanced economy, or perhaps (if we can get over the fact that owned objects don't change hands) a hybrid system where the coin economy (when it arises) has a parallel/piggy-back goods exchange system.

Which doesn't stop a pre-economy Dwarf from aquiring any number of silk socks and finding themselves rich, and also has the possible disadvantage (and thus actually in keeping with the DF philosophy of there being a million ways to lose?) of vanity goods speculation or even artifact exchange in order to facilitate the movement of wealth, to then fail miserable when the item is stolen/destroyed.  (Or, worse, the 'loss' covered up in ever more virtual valuations and speculation, until the point when some debt needs to be recovered and there is nothing to back up the supposed wealth of a certain individual, toppling the whole system in a frenzy of economic implosion.)

No, I don't think the above paragraph is easily workable.  I'd stick to using coins if necessary, but in the expectation that purses of some kind could be added to simplify the hauling of "ready money", but backed up by the credit system that is currently 'ethereal' in nature, but perhaps transferable to actual 'books' that the accountant/treasurer assigned-noble does actually maintain.  (If you feel that the potential (and/or deliberate) loss of those books would be something you'd want to risk(/exploit)...  At the moment it seems to be a "collective consciousness" knowledge of the wealth of all non-noble residents.  Perfect and yet intangilble.  Which is why I suppose a lot of people turn the economy off, and settle back into the more feudal supply-and-demand non-economy that exists in the initial settlement.

The opportunity to guide which of several (suitable in-character) economic models/mixture of models get used would seem interesting.  But would that immediately arrive (or even eventually lead up to?) a paper economy?  Unless done specifically to annoy the elves, given the current tendency for one entire tree to become a log to become a single 'block' and then to become a single wooden earring (at least in the hands of the inexperienced), so it seems natural that one entire tree would eventually become one (or maybe three/nine, I suppose) treasury note of some kind.

(Back to game mechanics, if we currently have problems with coin haulage, in leiu of a 'purse' mechanism, then we'd have similar problems with paper haulage, in leiu of a 'wallet' of some kind.  Unless you go down the lines of having multiple magnitudes of value to specifically handle this issue, but then you'd have to deal with 'change', as well.)

Ok, so if I do scaffolding since I want to build a huge wall, what would be the fastest way to destroy them? I can't just let it "fall down" since it's all attached to the wall..

[Edit: darn, didn't answer thisquestion, and went off on tangents.  Will make another reply, sorry.]



If you're building a wall, on top of another wall without wanting any flooring either side to stand on (or dedicating time to making a set of temporary bridges), then your big problem in designating the 'ontop' walls is that dwarfs don't like to stand on spots were other constructions are to occur and (if you let them, and don't keep an eye on directional preferences) they like to hem themselves in.  But with a little micromanagement you can get them to do it more logically.

Say you've started with a square enclosure that you want to operate on from the inside.  e.g.
.......
.#####.
.#...#.
.#.>.#.
.#...#.
.#####.
.......
And you want to build on top of that for an arbitrary number of levels, depending on how many builders I wanted to apply to the task at a time, I'd take the upper level and designate the following wall-blocks on the next level up (with the given stairway accesses needing the lower level, of course).

  1-2      <=4      <=8     12-20? (large enclosure version)
 O++++    O+++O    O+O+O    O++OO+++OO++O
 +X  +    +X  +    +X X+    +X    X    X+
 +   +    +   +    O   O    +           +
 +   +    +  X+    +X X+    O           O
 ++++O    O+++O    O+O+O    O           O
   v        v        v      +           +
 #++++    #++O#    #O#O#    +X         X+
 +X  +    +X  O    OX XO    +           +
 +   +    +   +    #   #    O           O
 +   O    O  X+    OX XO    O           O
 +++O#    #O++#    #O#O#    +           +
   v        v               +X         X+
 #++++    #+O##             O++OO+++OO++O
 +X  +    +X  #                   v
 +   O    O   O             #+O##O+O##O+#
 +   #    #  X+             +X    X    X+
 ++O##    ##O+#             O           O
   v        v               #    etc    #
 #++++    #O### <=
 +X  O    OX  #    TR and BL corners
 +   #    #   #    can now be started
 +   #    #  XO    on the level above
 +O###    ###O# <=
   v
  etc
   v
 #O###
 OX  #
 #   #    At this point you can start
 #   #    this corner off on the level
 ##### <= above (after the stairs opposing)

As you can see, the more simultaneous points you want to start at, the more stairwell scaffolds you need, but you can balance it so there's just the one (but only two dwarfs can work on it at the time) if you don't want to flood the site with scaffolding and (apart from doing the most inaccessible corners first, which is essential unless you want to fudge that by using external scaffolding later).

The "start the level above" hints are only useful if you have extra workers available, but you weren't keen on so many stairwells.  But beware of the Last in First Out nature of construction, because one or two workers (in the first column) may build the BR corner on the level above before attempting the two final ones adjacent to the TL corner, and then you're tempted to assign the next two in line adjacent to the BR corner on Z+1, but you still need to make sure you put the TL standalone in on Z+1 before you forget, so need the standing space afforded by the TL-adjacents.  IYSWIM.

Obviously the above is scalable, and you'll need to adjust.  I see you mention building a cylinder, in which case you need to ensure the walls are
###   over-       and on the level above will ##O    before ###
  ### lapping      need to do something like:   +++  you do   O++


I see some people mention putting in temporary floors to access the corners.  While you aren't doing it, this is something I find I often need to do when I'm building overhanging bits (e.g. minimal footprint walled-off 'stairwell shaft' punching through ground level, but wanting to use far more elevated real-estate).

         OOOO   wait  ##OO  before  ##OO  now  ##OO
x+++     ++++  until  ++++     you   +++  you  O+++
 +++  -> O+++     ->  O+++      ->  O+++   ->  O+++
 ++X     O++X     at  O++X  remove  O++X  can  O++X
 +++     O+++  least  O+++    this  O+++  add  O+++

But once you have the overhang, you can build on the level above as per above "on top of walls" instructions.  Or if you're flooring off every level, then just need to worry about all the corners.  One of my favourite 'tower' designs has the following type of floorplan (to differing scales... with differing room sizes and stairwell areas produces different skews, to interesting aesthetic effects.  I've got it down to a fine art)...
            #######
            #+++++#
      #######+++++#
      #+++++#+++++#
      #+++++#+++++#
      #+++++#+++++#
      #+++++###+#########
      #+++++#+++++#+++++#
#########+###+++++#+++++#
#+++++#+++++#+++++++++++#
#+++++#+++++#+++++#+++++#
#+++++++++++#+++++#+++++#
#+++++#+++++#+#############
#+++++#++++++X++++++#+++++#
#############+#+++++#+++++#
  #+++++#+++++#+++++++++++#
  #+++++#+++++#+++++#+++++#
  #+++++++++++#+++++#+++++#
  #+++++#+++++###+#########
  #+++++#+++++#+++++#
  #########+###+++++#
        #+++++#+++++#
        #+++++#+++++#
        #+++++#+++++#
        #+++++#######
        #+++++#
        #######
In the above, I have to worry not only about 12 external corners needing a temporary floor to access, but 4 "middle of a cross" wall sections that need helping out (at each "inner angle" of the three-room 'suite' layout).  But once I've gotten the first overhanging level sorted out, access to Z+1 and any flooring out from the stairwell that's needed to access the wall-tops, then I generally assign to be built all the room floors then (to take priority) all the 'junction' walls (internal and external corners, plus where there are 'T's in the walls), then (to take absolute priority) the floors in the 'doorway' squares above the gaps in the floor below(although I needn't technically do that, if I'm careful about not blocking anyone in on top of the wall-spurs later on).  Then I can start designating the non-corner walls to be built as soon as the floors reach them.

If I'm planning on gaps in the external walls for windows (or other things like inter-tower walkways) then I will of course have to contend with those design issues as well.

This does not seem to apply to the OP's question, but I thought I'd share.

I would argue that all three possibilities for the appearance of the frisbee are simply natural occurances.

I would agree that that the frisbee(+frisbee thrower), cloud and bird are all natural in our meta-world that houses the analogy.  It's the metaphorical part about the newly-conscious picnicer, never having had an experience other than laying on his or her back staring up and seeing the f/c/b/... 'something' pass across the line of sight, has an opinion about the origin and/or purpose of the object, insofar as the existence or not of the thrower (and/or maker), the nature of metorology and the existence of an entity that has attained the ability to fly through the air.

What might be seen is the cloud, which just happens to be in the shape of a bird (or frisbee... lenticular clouds are quite interesting that way), and much dedication might be applied to preaching to fellow picnicers that it cannot have been a purely physical phenomenon, that there must be some agency within/behind it in order for it to exist.  Or it was instead really a frisbee, but because the thrower is out of sight one announces that one has come to the concusion that it must be a peculiar phenomenon that coelesces out of thin air (much experiments with the cheese sandwiches ensues, to see if mashing them together at great speed reveals something about the nature of matter, while someone else shakes up bottles of pop to show spontaneous generation of gas in liquid) or an intelligent creature in its own right.  If it was an actual bird, then a "toy ornithopter" hypothesis might arise by those that cannot believe birds do not need designers behind them, while the Cloudians have their own explanation.

Better examples than these will exist, it was just an idle invention of the mind, while dozing in bed the other night.

Reading all the signs when walking gives you a much better chance of a written tm, though.
And I'm pretty sure walking outdoors is good for the old xp gain.  Not as noticeable as exploring a new city, but it's there.  Oh, and stealing money from NPC merchants is fun.

"alias avalook leave carriage; read sign; enter carriage", to invoke (manually, not by trigger) whenever the carriage stops.

(Actually, you will need to make it more complicated, to taste.  Maybe to handle the Djellian caravan/carriage-equivalent situation, if you don't relgate that to another alias, but mostly because in Escrow (should you dare step outside) there's three or four different carriages that might be standing there, inclusive of one's own (and obviously at least two different ones at all other 'interchange' points you might be using, if you're going via the chain of local services instead of staying on the Intercontinental) and it's quite easy to get on the one to Fiddlyfjord or the Steppes/etc.  But I don't want to dictate half-rememvered alias scripting detail, while I can't refer to my own 'library' of them.)

But the walking is probably a good XP gain (especially if you add sneaking to the mix), you'd be sacificing that for the ability to stand/sit around in comfort able to cycle through all kinds of other XP-gaining activities, like palming and slipping coins to the ground, reading whatever reading material you have on you, listening to the regular reports from the driver (not present on the Intercontinental!), etc. Swings, meet roundabouts.