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Messages - MoatMan

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61
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: July 08, 2009, 03:26:27 pm »
Quote from: assimilateur on July 08, 2009, 03:22:29 pm
Yes, [CAN_SPEAK] and [BABYSNATCHER] was exactly what they were missing.

I had also multiplied my gobs (made 4 different entities/civs based on the goblin race), but that's hardly relevant.

Cool that pretty  much wraps it up.

One last note, for anyone who's lurking, I'm gussing the    
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
and
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]

In the goblins entity entry MIGHT determine when they siege or raid, one referring to population, the other to wealth but I'm not sure. Its not in the entity token list on the wiki anyway.

Also, should we fix the [BABYSNATCHER] definition on the wiki?

62
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: July 08, 2009, 03:07:57 pm »
Quote from: assimilateur on July 08, 2009, 03:03:08 pm
Quote from: MoatMan on July 08, 2009, 02:34:52 pm
Without the [CAN_SPEAK] token will they still send small raiding parties before they siege?
If so what triggers the shift between raiding parties and a siege? Fortress value?

I wouldn't know because at the time I had re-enabled invaders my fortress value was rather high; probably too high for just ambushes.

At this point I'm just trying to see if the [BABYSNATCHER] Token is superflous once [CAN_SPEAK] is gone.
That said, vanilla goblins are supposed to require a pop of 80 dwarves before they siege you, though I don't know to what extent that is set in stone. Perhaps a high fortress value can override that population requirement, or it was the lack of [babysnatcher] that made them siege my ass at ~50 dwarves.

I'm forced to guess here because I hadn't tested this out too thoroughly until I went ahead and modded my goblins. It would be nice if modding their [babysnatcher] and [can_speak] status was superfluous, because I'd like them to have their usual wacky names.

Goblins sieged you with less than 80 Dwarves?
Where they missing  the [BABYSNATCHER] and [CANSPEAK] tokens?

How where they modded?

63
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: July 08, 2009, 02:34:52 pm »
Quote from: assimilateur on July 08, 2009, 02:09:51 pm
I removed [intelligent] replacing it with [can_civ] and [can_learn]. I then started the game with invaders:no and played like that for several years. After I switched to invaders:yes I waited until next year - because this sort of thing gets calculated at a year's start - and the next spring, BAM!, "a vile force of darkness has arrived", like clockwork.

In short, I can attest that this thing works as long as you're willing to "sacrifice" their ability to speak. From what I've seen so far the only differences will be a lower population threshold for them to start sieging and their lack of names. They'll be called "goblin" instead of the usual Smunstu Incestromances, and supposedly get named by the dwarves if they manage to clip anyone.

Thanks for the info.


Now I only have a few more questsions.
Without the [CAN_SPEAK] token will they still send small raiding parties before they siege?
If so what triggers the shift between raiding parties and a siege? Fortress value?


Quote from: Elvang on June 19, 2009, 04:38:59 am
Though it seems to be unverified on the wiki, dead dwarves supposedly count towards the requirement of 80 dwarves for sieges (Slowly working my way towards it to test). Also, if you remove the baby snatcher tag you'll get friendly goblins. Baby snatcher races are permanently at war with non-snatcher races.

Quote from: Raz on May 03, 2009, 05:50:48 pm
Replace [INTELLIGENT] with [CAN_CIV] and [CAN_LEARN]. [INTELLIGENT] implies those two, plus [CAN_SPEAK]. Because the current version is bugged (i.e. creatures make peace way too often if they have the ability to communicate), [CAN_SPEAK] often leads to peaceful civs.
Quote from: Zaranthan on May 03, 2009, 10:23:29 pm
Aye. Babysnatchers are permanently at war with non-babysnatchers. Unfortunately, that tag makes them insist on trying to, well, snatch your babies before they'll bother sieging, and there's no way to bypass that stage. So you can either have guaranteed war with a non-speaking civ in the first summer, or guaranteed war with a speaking civ after a few years.
Again, thanks.

Am I right to assume a war means a siege?
And how would I get a guaranteed war with a speaking civ? Or is that guarantee a population above 80?

64
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: July 08, 2009, 02:26:10 pm »
Okay, I really should have read through the thread more carefully before my last post :-X.

So let me see if I have this straight.

[INTELLIGENT] or [CAN_SPEAK] Generally makes a civ friendly,
UNLESS they have [BABYSNATCHER] or [ITEM_THIEF] which makes them hostile by default.

If [CAN_SPEAK] is not there at all or implied they are also permanently hostile.

Sound about right?

65
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: July 08, 2009, 01:49:12 pm »
Okay I'm still messing around with the tokens trying to get this mix right. Can they have a diplomat or use tree diplomacy if I disable speech? Killing the Diplomat and  cutting trees would get me a siege that way.

Incidentally does that mean the wiki entry is just wrong?
    |
    V

"Baby Snatcher

Sends thieves to steal babies. Also sends ambush parties to harass your civilization. Without this tag enemy civs will only siege, and will siege as early as they would otherwise babysnatch. This can happen as early as the first year of the fort!"

Whenever I remove the [BABYSNATCHER] token they get the "NO TRADE" Status next to their name and are totally friendly instead of their usual raid happy selves, whether they had the [CAN_SPEAK] or [INTELLIGENT] tokens.

66
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / More mac quirks
« on: July 02, 2009, 04:23:38 pm »
  This thread was originally a bug report about being unable to scroll over the world map in the world painter using the numpad or arrow keys but I moved it to some place less important when I found a solution to this imagined problem
   Turns out you can scroll by command clicking and dragging the map so not being able to scroll with the arrow keys seems more like a convenient but unnecessary feature.

67
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Obvious world painter question.
« on: July 02, 2009, 04:01:49 pm »
Quote from: Albedo on July 02, 2009, 02:13:01 pm
(Hate to ask the obvious, but is "Num Lock" on/off?)


I'm on a laptop and I've tried all variations. Believe me, scrolling doesn't work. I guess I should post this in the bugs forum.

68
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Obvious world painter question.
« on: July 02, 2009, 12:31:18 pm »
Quote from: Antsan on July 02, 2009, 08:02:16 am
Just use the numpad to scroll, like in the game. At last that's how I did it.
    Neither the numpad or arrow keys scroll at all. I wonder if this is a unique glitch or if all 40d11s have this problem. I downloaded a fresh version just to make sure and the painter doesn't scroll out of box.

69
DF Gameplay Questions / Obvious world painter question.
« on: July 02, 2009, 02:16:10 am »
    I cannot for the life of me figure out how to scroll over the full canvas in the world painter. When made the world the upper corner was diverse and lush and the rest of the map was hills.

   I'm on a mac running 40d11. What am I missing? How the hell do I paint the rest of the map?

70
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: July 02, 2009, 01:01:06 am »
Quote from: AtomicPaperclip on June 30, 2009, 03:04:58 pm
Quote from: Ironhand on June 19, 2009, 09:20:50 pm
Unless they kill a dwarf.

Then they get a dwarven name not a goblin name

To fix it take out the [INTELLIGENT] tag and replace it with can civ and can learn (and regen?)

Don't forget the [CAN_TALK] token. I like them to have names. Regen doesn't seem necessary to make them into meat merchants so I don't think it'll be necessary to turn them back into murderers

71
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: June 30, 2009, 01:15:45 pm »
I am up to my eyeballs in meat >:(. How do I get them to start sieging, or even ambushing again?

72
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Underground trees
« on: June 19, 2009, 09:10:14 pm »
Quote from: Derakon on June 19, 2009, 07:24:36 pm
For that matter, you can (very slowly) grow underground crops in dug-out soil layers, without bothering to muddy them up. But muddying vastly increases the rate of plant growth.

   I can attest to this from personal experience. I dug out and flooded a large underground are and BAM I have a tree farm at my current fort that spits out a few towercape every season, now that a couple years have passed.

73
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Forest Density
« on: June 19, 2009, 08:53:14 pm »
Quote from: Sutremaine on June 18, 2009, 10:16:07 pm
Quote from: MoatMan on June 18, 2009, 09:12:26 pm
My elevation variance is jacked up pretty high  and rivers are at max, but I'm not sure my volcanism variance and forest square min is what it should be.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Try this as a base. The drainage and rain values are set to favour forest/swamp and sand desert, and the combination of tiny mountain ranges (I just saw three chasm tiles in the middle of a marsh bordering a desert) and wildly varying volcanism means you'll strike lucky sooner or later. Even with no rejection settings and a 65x65 grid it's pretty easy to find a 3x3 with magma, sedimentary flux and sourced water.

One thing -- the world is very flat. There are six z-levels in total and no volcanoes.

Thanks I'll give this a shot, probably modifying the river min and such but >15 z levels is typically what I use as a minimum. Although the average fps of my current fortress is causing me to reconsider this.

Still, if there is enough iron...

74
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: June 19, 2009, 08:18:27 pm »


Quote from: Elvang on June 19, 2009, 04:38:59 am
Though it seems to be unverified on the wiki, dead dwarves supposedly count towards the requirement of 80 dwarves for sieges (Slowly working my way towards it to test). Also, if you remove the baby snatcher tag you'll get friendly goblins. Baby snatcher races are permanently at war with non-snatcher races.

Funny you should mention this. I removed the snatcher tag from the Goblin raw and the very next year I got my first pair of goblin traders.  I thought I had to gen a new world but maybe not.

Maybe this is just a coincidence?

75
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: How to get a Goblin siege with a pop <80?
« on: June 18, 2009, 11:51:19 pm »
Quote from: Efun on June 18, 2009, 11:18:20 pm
Quote from: MoatMan on June 18, 2009, 10:02:35 pm
Quote from: Martin on June 18, 2009, 09:56:26 pm
Orc mod.

Yes, gen a new world.

That really doesn't answer my first question.

... and... this is the "Mode" forum, not the "Modding" forum...
Shoot.

This is the mode forum.... and the orc mod has to do with the Fort mode, the orcs siege the first winter so i would install it if you want early sieges.

FYI, Anything besides adventure mode is pretty much discussed in this forum because stories, mod and the like deal with fort mode.

Oh no no no, I accidentally posted this forum in here instead of the modding forum is what I meant.

but I don't care for the orc mod, I just wan to know how to do this. So...
Quote from: pushy on June 18, 2009, 11:10:00 pm
Open the entities file, find the goblins and remove their [BABYSNATCHER] token. Save the file and I'm pretty sure you'd have to start a new world, yes.
This has quite a few effects on the civ, the obvious one of which being that the civ will no longer send snatchers to steal your babies/children, but one of the other effects is that the civ can siege you as early as they would otherwise start sending snatchers (and no, you don't need kids on the map for there to be a snatcher on the map in a vanilla game)

Thanks this is exactly what I needed to know.

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