Bay 12 Games Forum

This, actually, is a great idea. Allowing Dwarves to swap out gear is nice, especially if you want to make sure it gets upgraded as time goes on; there is also implementation suggestions for coding, and a no-nonsense interface option.

Now, there are a few notes:
1). I'm for the straightforward and common-sense solution: If there's no economy, any dwarf with Furniture Hauling enabled will handle this. If there is economy, then the dwarf will make the choice to hire a porter or not. There's no reason to fuss around either option.
2). This can go hand-in-hand with the room view (possibly accessible through the [r] option), where you can see what items are located in a room. If a gritty algorithm is written, then basic furniture can be lumped up into rooms that are viewable; possibly from here you can set the Upgrade Options, based on what's already in the room (because rooms can be varied in design, it might be weird to set up templates to apply to a room, or even set a list of furniture to be moved into a room. You know, what's to stop a dwarf from placing a bed in the doorway and the door in the back, and trying to stack all the cabinets and coffers in the same square?--I'd rather avoid another chance for dwarven stupidity). But, from here you can set the limits, much like certains stockpiles, from REGULAR all the way up to LEGENDARY types. Such a menu would have to be context relevant, however; it would only display what furniture is already within the room.

I'm glad you gave as in-depth of a response as I gave, which definitely helps (rather than being wholesale ignored).

The reason I'm up for rawifying the games is because it allows for semi-random games (as there'll be semi-random monsters); it requires less stress on Toady, who has to devise the rules for the games and hardcode them; and lastly, the ideas I project are based on DF as-is. This latter point is important, because it implies no multi z-level buildings (I already had the desire that the Audience zone simply needs to see the Arena zone, and that's the only requirement), or anything that massive.

I'm also suggesting not the end-all formation of this idea, but a middle point--a place where we can see it go then move onward from there, because if this game can do what you're suggesting without limitation, then the Dwarf Fortress will become infinitely better.

I'd say start with number 3 and part of number 2; have material be reflected in construction and natural occuring places. It sucks building a road, and not really seeing in Stonesense. This can then make detailed workshops a little easier work with. Transitioned effects would be nice, but they aren't entirely necessary at the moment.

This idea requires a great deal of retinkering the existing system: The player will have to define furniture independent rooms and zones for workshops, which are then claimed by a single individual (whether appointed to the position, or just purchases the lot, from whom I don't know? Not the mayor? There's no Fortress council. The Mountainhome maybe? I mean, the Fortress is paid for by the labor of the dwarves... Anyway, so once this individual has the lot, he has to then advertise the lot and try to catch someone who's willing to buy it. This implies a great deal of economic background, that both the landlord and the renter has the cash on hand to do what they want with the land. It requires that you deal with a new mechanic of building rooms and furnishing them once the economy kicks in, etc. Unless the economy is in play once you strike dirt.

We end up with a few big problems:
1). We as the player carve out free form rooms, add in furniture and designate how big it should be. This idea requires us instead to designate a spot that a dwarf will occupy through his own dwarvenly means, which includes hiring the miners to dig it out, smooth it up, build walls and supports, and furnish it. The former gives us control over the design of the fortress and control of manufactured resources, the latter pulls that control from us. I'd rather not see it taken away.
2). It creates a rather modern distinction that the land is owned by someone who is willing to give it away to someone who's going to pay for it so he can get someone else to pay for it. This doesn't sound it. It isn't Dwarf Condominium or Real Estate Tycoon or SimCity Beard Edition.

Rather, to alleviate these issues we can suggest: Land-owning nobles, who through appointment or gifts are given by the Mountainhome portions of the already created Fortress. They then take this, and charge rent not to the tax collector, but to the land-owner. We then end up with a lot more nobles. As it stands, the existing system isn't too bad:

1). The region is partitioned off by the Mountainhome to settle and exploit its resources. Dwarves strike the earth, and through their effort survive year after year in their colony while supplying the Mountainhome with goods.
2). The expedition leader then becomes a Mayor, then is replaced by a noble once the place becomes of such value and so many dwarves live there. Being that the land is claimed (and therefore owned) by the Crown, and being that the expedition is funded by the Crown (your starting points), once it becomes a barony or a county or whatever, the Crown then decides that simple trade isn't good enough for the rich Fortress, but now must levy tax from its subjects.
3). Levying taxes requires each person to make something worth taxing. Selling of goods hardly sees as great of a profit as they hoped, so rent is demanded. In order for people to pay rent, they have to make money. In order to make money, you have to jobs. And in order to pay for those jobs, so the dwarves can pay their rent, so the noble can pay the tax to the Lord, you have to mint coins.

If you want to suggest a new system of land-ownership, you have to consider the current set up and work from there, because rewriting it will change the scope of the economy.

The last thing we need is more specialized skills. Bowmaking should be removed as is. Subskills might be more viable

Making cabinets out of stone and metal are nothing like making them out of wood. I have to object to there being a synergy between different materials

No problem with objecting the obvious . I was trying to find a way to make the OP's idea sound reasonable, that is, allow item subskills to be translated to provide an XP boost to different mats. This wouldn't mean that a Legendary Carpenter with high marks in Coopering could make an ☼Iron Barrel☼, but rather, each time he makes an Iron Barrel, he gains an additional a 5% XP bonus (probably no more). It suggests familiarity with the crafting type, but not enough to break the verisimilitude.

If anything like this does get implemented, it shouldn't overwhelm the new players, and shouldn't confuse the old players. This is why I also suggested that each basic labor covers all appropriate mats and crafts, so you can just set Masonry and not even worry about it.

As for new skills, I'm slightly against the idea of just adding in new ones; I'd rather not see some of the older ones go, either--they're there for a reason. Take Crossbowmaking, which you didn't too well to agree with. I can understand why, however I feel it's better to keep weapon manufacturing separate from furniture manufacturing or craft manufacturing. I'd rather not have to put my barrel makers on hold to churn out a few crossbows, nor do I want to tell my Blacksmith to stop studding items with goblinite so he can raise his skill just to make a few swords. Fewer skills would make micromanaging all the harder, as each dwarf's labor would have a wider scope, but too many would make it difficult. There can be some roll-up, however, like doing something with Lyemaking and Soapmaking (because let's be honest, Lyemaking isn't all too realistic in Dwarf Fortress because it doesn't take into account the alkalinity of the ash being used; any ash will do--but it's a simple task, find a tightly sealed barrel with a tap on the bottom, put rocks and leaves on the bottom of the barrel, fill it with water, let it sit. Drain it, and repeat--"leaching" until you get the right solution. Wow! That was fun! Now watch your hands, you don't want to burn anything.)

But--rather than worry about what requirements are there for a skill to be a skill, we should be trying to figure out how to improve player options, and make things "realistic" (as far as we can suspend them, without making it overly complicated) and overall better for the playing experience.

I just noticed that my desert fort's patron civilization is named The Honest Axe.

I think I know what my fort's insignia is going to be. Too bad the map's almost nothing but limestone so it'll take awhile to import the gold and silver I need, but it will be excellent and, for once, very fitting.

Can I give a suggestion as to what your insignia should be? Abe Lincoln. And an axe.

Confirmed in d18; found that cycling through the list forward will result in correct placement (though with a large list, might be rather impossible.)