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Messages - MagicJuggler

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106
DF Suggestions / Re: Better sense of time...
« on: November 18, 2008, 11:01:02 am »
And what if you want to build your fortress above-ground, even only partially? And additionally, what about hunting and woodcutting, especially if you do not have an underground river that can support massive towercap farms?

107
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 17, 2008, 10:56:04 am »
...it doesn't even have to do that is what I was saying.

Suppose it had an enemy to the left. It would teleport to the right ledge next to the magma. The enemy teleports to the left of the teleporter, thus falling in the magma.

108
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Dwarf Fortress IRC game;
« on: November 17, 2008, 10:15:53 am »

Status Update: The party has left Mountainkeep and is currently cleansing its new home. Votes on what to name it are appreciated.

Current Inventory:
Will fill in later.

Current Roster
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hello everyone. On IRC, I'm running an RTD game using the GURPS system, where currently the players are embarking to form their own fortress.

Character Creation Rules
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Templates
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The World of Destruction
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Prologue: Fill in Later

Chapter 1: Arrest!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Chapter 2: Exodus
Fill in Later

Chapter 3: Kobolds!
Fill in Later

109
Forum Games and Roleplaying / Re: Dwarf Fortress IRC game;
« on: November 17, 2008, 10:15:13 am »
I speak of 4th edition, yet we can help you out. See the following post.

110
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 17, 2008, 09:50:05 am »
This thread got stuck way too hard on teleportation.

Well, other threads got stuck on tunnelers/diggers.  ;D

Also, the teleporting could be limited to just a few tiles

Yes, I absolutely agree. Maybe max. 8-10 tiles combined with ~2 teleportations/combat sequence.

This then begs the question of "What IS a combat sequence"
On another note, mass teleport could be turned from a disadvantage into an advantage if the beast decided to teleport next to a magma pool so that its pursuers fell but it didn't...

111
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 16, 2008, 05:02:01 pm »
You obviously haven't been reading any of my previous posts...
*An enemy has been spotted*
*Select Guard*
*Enemy teleports away from guard, moves to civilian*
*One wild goose chase later, only the guards, some tantruming, remain.*

Only the Teleporter doesn't teleport away fast enough and dies

BAMN!!!

That was easy

Obviously the Teleporter may do quite some damage but then again his power is Teleportation not Omnipotence.

Doesn't teleport fast enough...you mean putting a cooldown in between teleports I assume? Or making teleport take time before it activates...

112
DF Suggestions / Re: Whaling, and general fishing with harpoons involved.
« on: November 16, 2008, 04:18:00 pm »
Why not make it so that some weapons are defined as "melee with range" so in addition to harpoons and tongues, we also have Kusari-gamas and pikes and other fun weapons?

113
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 16, 2008, 04:15:30 pm »
Let me see here...

*An Enemy has been spotted in the base*
*Selects guard to attack*
*Enemy is killed*

BAMN the teleporter is dead. What is so hopelessly difficult here?

You obviously haven't been reading any of my previous posts...
*An enemy has been spotted*
*Select Guard*
*Enemy teleports away from guard, moves to civilian*
*One wild goose chase later, only the guards, some tantruming, remain.*

114
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 16, 2008, 03:58:36 pm »
Quote
Teleporting is such an effective power: if it exists, there should be a watertight explanation why it isn't more common

I think your overthinking things here... Many enemies are going to have powers and abilities that will not offer any reason to as why it isn't more common other then "It isn't"

Why arn't there more enemies that have poison? Why arn't there more enemies with multiple heads? Why arn't there more enemies that fly? Why arn't there more enemies that make civilisations?

The answer is simply not everyone has it... It isn't a naturally occuring phenomina. You can't go over to your grandmother's house eat cookies and find out that you suddenly have the powers of teleportation... In the same way that you can eat a chilli pepper and suddenly breathe fire.

"Except fire can be dealt with very easily, either through water or channeling"

So can teleportation. stop attributing abilities to teleportation as if they go without saying.

I don't remember Nightcrawler ever destroying the free world... and he HAS the exaggerated version of teleportation that stops short of being able to teleport people's bodyparts off.

Stop attributing abilities to teleportation...fine. So let us assume that instead our teleporting assassin has weak stats. That makes it pointless. So why bother putting it in? We do so either to give it strength to take on Dwarfs 1-on-1, or to steal stuff and either way stopping it is theoretically impossible. The dragon's flames can be predicted, channeled, and otherwise dealt with but the teleporting target is capable of evading harm in a manner that cannot be dealt with; there are two extremes of teleportation, one being simply "return to base" (ala Diablo 2) and the other being "Teleport effectively at will" (Xcom Apocalypse) and the more one goes towards the latter extreme, the more broken it becomes. The Apocalypse personal teleporter was beyond broken, giving the player the ability to pause the game, teleport, drop a Vortex Grenade on the spot, then teleport before the explosion went off, the effect being akin to a precision nuke. Granted we're not giving our teleporter Vortex grenades, but it would have to have SOME ability beyond teleportation to be more than a simple pest. Either the thieving (which would be effectively uncounterable, and thus no fun), or the ability to assassinate individual Dwarfs (which again would be no fun, especially if the AI were not balanced to use basic LOS, allowing it to selectively target the easiest targets, i.e. sleeping Dwarfs)

Your Nightcrawler analogy fails on account of him being a superhero and by using false comparisons between the world and a fortress; statistically, a teleporter will not be capable of killing 6-billion people off but will be capable of picking its fights and picking its own battles. Tell me this is a good power equivalent to a dragon whose flames can be stopped by solid construction.

115
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 16, 2008, 03:38:31 pm »
"So not a fortress-destroyer you say?"

Megabeast sets fire to your fortress... it burns down "Game Over"

Except fire can be dealt with very easily, either through water or channeling...teleportation doesn't really have an appreciable counter.

116
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 16, 2008, 02:35:09 pm »
Don't forget that Teleporting enemies used sparingly is just a challenge in the same way Megabeasts, even though they are largely supperior, are a challenge.

Sure they can teleport in your base and kill a few people... and thus will take a while to take down... but they are hardly fort destroyers.

As for Magic and Teleporting Civs, that is another story.

Hardly fort destroyers...
Teleporter Assassin strikes down child...
Teleporter Assassin strikes down migrant farmer.
..
(While your troops are busy running about to catch up with Teleporter Assassin)
Teleporter Assassin strikes down mason.
Teleporter Assassin strikes down carpenter.
(Your troops get to the assassin, it teleports to another part of the fortress)...
...
Teleporter Assassin is on a killing spree...
Soldier 1 throws a tantrum.
Teleporter Assassin keeps killing more stuff.
Soldiers 2 and 3 tantrum.
Tantrum spiral begins.

So not a fortress-destroyer you say?

117
DF Suggestions / Re: Better sense of time...
« on: November 15, 2008, 08:12:35 pm »
Note that I also am in favor of time compression as an option, so that if things are going relatively peacefully, you can speed things up to normal DF speeds. Truth be told, one of the main reasons for slowing down time would be in the case of (insert thiefs/snatchers/etc. because as it stands, it can take several days to catch an intruder once they're detected, and that's rather silly...

118
DF Suggestions / Re: No more invincible forts
« on: November 15, 2008, 04:25:49 pm »
Quote
It's not a point of "can we defeat them" but a case of "is this a fair fight?" If they have teleportation and you don't, its a cheap advantage you're giving to the computer to compensate for it not being able to intelligently siege using conventional methods.

Instantly negated by the genre your in. Dragons can breathe fire and spread it to your base. something your incapable of doing (or at least as easily)

The Bronze collosus and Ironmen are immune to organ damage as well as having large Damage block

You even have several advantages no other NPC has that is beyond their AI (Some which need to go away, some that the enemy should also have, and some to define the player)

I am not against teleportation as a whole. If you mean enemies instantly gaining teleportation for no reason... then yeah. (of course if the only way they could harm you is by having teleportation... then it makes sense that the only enemies that WOULD attack you are the ones with teleportation)

My argument still stands. The advantages Dwarfs get (such as their innate damage resistance and martial trance) in general tend to cancel out disadvantages such as their reduced size and weapon options...likewise, the powers of megabeasts are negated by the fact they have relatively low numbers, or (in the case of Dragons) that such powers can be turned to your own ends. So the fights are "fair" in that powers are roughly equal to each other.

Now contrast with a group of teleporting invaders, that could evade your entire army and move towards systematic slaughtering of your civilian population, or the elimination of individual soldiers, teleporting away before they get hit by whatever crossbows/etc are in the way...if one could find ways to balance them (e.g. they can only teleport within line of sight), this wouldn't be an issue.

119
DF Suggestions / Re: Better sense of time...
« on: November 15, 2008, 03:51:11 pm »
Hmm...one can't fix it so dwarfs all sleep at night save guards on patrol?

The other issue was lighting, since night would mean a lack of it...

120
DF Suggestions / Re: Kinds of demons
« on: November 15, 2008, 03:47:27 pm »
I want a giant chicken demon.
Something humiliating.

Quote
A succubus is a demon, and as such it doesn't need to be species-specific.
Actually that would be an awesome one. One infiltrates your fortress, acts like a regular dwarf, right until it sucks out the soul of your legendary marksdwarf. If you kill it before it escapes, you save the victim?

A giant chicken demon? You mean a fowl fiend? On another note, I would like to see other spirits like a spirit of air (sucks away air/blows your troops away/etc), a spirit of water (summons tidal waves/freezes your troops/etc) or spirit of earth...

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