Bay 12 Games Forum

I can see that simultaneously in multiple directions.

Firstly-- There is an unassailable statistic about females suffering rape, and sexual assault.  That DOES need to be considered.

Second-- schools often misattribute toxic masculinity to "harmless boy play".  Much to the detriment of non-toxic boys.

Third-- Segregating JUST the toxic individuals (both toxic boys and toxic girls), is harmful to those children, and has questionable benefit to the other students (as it denies them even passive exposure to those menaces, and leaves them woefully unprepared for adult life. Dicks and cunts are real. They exist in adult life in copious quantities. Instead of kicking you and taking your lunch money though, they instead bully you at the traffic stop, and kick out your tail light.

I do not believe that there even *IS* a universally "good" solution.

If you want to state that using one's agency to leverage the real and effective power of corporations to combat the situation in Tenn is somehow "Doing nothing", I am willing to indulge the exercise.

I draw the line however, and strawmanning me in such a way, that such a position is immediately presumed 100% correct.


Like or not, those corporations wield that power.  The thrust of this absurd law, is to try and abuse that power, by coopting it.  The proponents believe that they are so numerous, that they can damage the reputation and bottom line of those corporations by requiring this absurd farce of a plaquard. (that is to say, by their displaying them, the "GOOD, CONCERNED CITIZENS!" will not shop there, and this will harm those businesses that do.)

The inverse is actually true-- as pointed out in the article I cited.  Those companies want to just leave Tenn high and dry.  That would actually harm EVERYONE in that state, including the LGBT people that live there. (This is especially true, since food deserts and such, ARE FUCKING REAL, and LGBT people tend to also be financially disadvantaged, as a result of systemic job discrimination!)

Rather than view it as "GETTING IN BED WITH EVIL NEFARIOUS BASTARDS, AND DOUBLECROSSING THE MOVEMENT! HOW DARE YOU!", you should instead view it as "There is real power there that you can leverage.  You SHOULD. Their CURRENT plan will hurt lots of innocent people, because of these assfucks. This course of action will avert that outcome, subvert the intended outcome of this law, and harness that power for your movement."

I personally do not consider doing that, to be "Patience and Inaction."

Dogwhistles? Mislabeling?

I say 'desired' like that because I'm not sure what the appropriate way to say 'correct' in the context since you could either infer it's 'correct for their gender' or 'correct for their assigned sex,' and the topic is clearly important enough that it's being legislated so 'desire' doesn't seem to cut it.

Here, I will refresh your memory.

Quote from: None on May 20, 2021, 12:22:41 pm

Look, patience and inaction is not going to change the rate of ardent oppositionists, because opposing things is just What They Do. They will be a constant because there exists a sociopolitical body that exists solely to oppose things and not change, and this is not going to change with age. The propaganda machine is not going to stop turning and telling people to close their ears and minds if the conversation for progress goes quiet- bigoted elders may raise bigoted children and they'll never hear to the contrary if we stop making conversation.

I wasn't even referring to the young or old in my previous point- opposition to social change comes from any age. They will ALWAYS have ammo, because they will always find something to blame or make a caricature when reality doesn't have a perfect example. They're defending the status quo, and doing that is easy because it's not hinged on making a point or upholding the truth. It will always be an uphill battle when asking for change, because 'no' is so much easier to do.

I won't advocate we sit around and wait for more Tennessee laws be passed and quietly hope that they turn themselves around at some point in fear that some Tucker Carlson numbfuck on some news channel is going to make more pearl-clutching speeches about gendered bathrooms or hope quietly that my folks eventually come around to the BLM movement while the legal system systematically fails minorities, because these things are going to continue happening regardless of the noise anyone makes about changing them.

I already addressed that elephant in the room:

Quote from: wierd on May 20, 2021, 05:58:16 am

NOTE-- this is NOT an advocation of "not pushing".  DO NOT CONSIDER IT SO, IT IS NOT THAT THING.

What it actually IS, is an admonishment against pushing TOO HARD, to the point of being obstinate, and offensive, rather than constructive and considerate.

The notion that "You CANT push too hard!" is at fault here.

Again, it is not "Do nothing!! Things will get better all on their own! Pinkyswear!"

If you are going to try to pretend that is my position, I have nothing further to say to you, because you are beating a strawman.
(and I am VERY VERY sick of that tactic being used on me. Read what I wrote, and argue against what I have said, not what you believe it means, or what is most convenient for you to believe.)

This is where I called out the specific behavior, and the specific strawman.  Your response was pure petulance--

That is why I affirmed to you that I am not actually your enemy, I REALLY HONESTLY TRULY AND DEEPLY DO want LGBT rights to go forward!

Your reaction to this, was to treat it as a dog whistle, to wit.

Vector:

While Karen often DOES do those things, those things are not actually required for the descriptor of Karen.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/karen/

Slang dictionary
Karen

[ kair-in ]
What does Karen mean?

Karen is a pejorative slang term for an obnoxious, angry, entitled, and often racist middle-aged white woman who uses her privilege to get her way or police other people's behaviors.

As featured in memes, Karen is generally stereotyped as having a blonde bob haircut, asking to speak to retail and restaurant managers to voice complaints or make demands, and being an anti-vaxx , Generation X soccer mom.

In 2020, Karen spread as a label used to call out white women who were captured in viral videos engaging in what are widely seen as racist acts.
Karen was one of the top trends in 2020. Read our 2020 Word of The Year article to see why.

Ironically, I *AM* being a Karen right now, and should stop.

However, pretending to play dumb when called out on misbehavior multiple times kinda torques my bolts.

I would be glad to, assuming None will stop with the strawmen, about dogwhistles he/she perceives, but are not actually there.

(I respond to such things similarly to how a transwoman responds to being called sir, if that helps. I am sick to death of being mislabeled, and then argued PAST.)

Cant say about women not peeing while sitting. All my old ladies desire to sit to pee.

It is the old men that want to stay and spray.

EVERY.

DAMN.

TIME.

I'm sorry to say this, but trans people do have the same boring preferences as cis people and like having general access to public spaces.

There's also of course the laws requiring genital inspections for kids' sports ^_^ Definitely ... caused by Karens ... am I right ...

Quote from: McTraveller on May 20, 2021, 02:50:46 pm

Just random question here - why would one ever need to know if you are using a bathroom based on identity instead of physiology?  Just always use a stall, and it would be impossible to know?  I don't really know of anyone that is trying to look down each others' pants while washing hands or whatever.

So, trans people don't always pass, meaning, they don't get read as their target gender identity, they get read as a gender non-conforming <something>. Also, nonbinary-identified people could be described as people who don't "pass" as anything in particular (not trying to appear as a cisgender woman or cisgender man).

Cis people also sometimes attack gender non-conforming people trying to use the toilet (i.e. butch women in the women's toilet is the typical story you hear about).

Quote from: Maximum Spin on May 20, 2021, 02:51:39 pm

Quote from: None on May 20, 2021, 02:42:25 pm

Granted, the 'service' is 'access to a restroom' (and it's always fucking restrooms!), but still.

Nobody will not have access to a restroom. Individuals may not have access to the restroom they want. This distinction actually does matter.

This is actually not correct in practice. Trans women are not safe in men's toilets.

As a rather ribald gender-queer asexual male, (who gets called Ma'am repeatedly at work when I wear my face mask, which conceals my beard), I get this alltogether too often.

However, I consider it hilarious. This is mainly because I do not give two shits about a gender identity, but find it hilarious they assign me the incorrect physical one without the obvious visual cue, despite having no boobs, and having male bone structure. 

However, for somebody that honestly feels they are male, or female, and getting misgendered, I can see how it would be very much a source of endless consternation. (Similar to my "You just haven;t found the right person yet!" hatred.)

I am of the opinion that gendered bathrooms in general are an outmoded concept, and unisex bathrooms should be the norm everywhere.

Just make them single occupancy, and there is no problem anymore.  Works for us at work. Nobody complains about me using the damn bathroom that they use.

Clamoring for rights is OK.  Note, My position, is not, nor has it ever been, "DO NOTHING! THINGS WILL GET BETTER ON THEIR OWN! PINKYSWEAR!"

My position is basically, "DONT BE FUCKING KAREN WHEN DOING IT."


Again, DO try not to read things in that are not expressly written in. I am not subtly dropping dogwhistles. Stop looking for them.


The example was a KKK keg party, comissioning a cake for said keg party, from a black bakery.

The black run bakery should have every right to refuse.

At no point was it meant to be implied that the KKK Keg party was anything other than a KKK Keg party--- A bunch of biggots getting together with a keg of beer, to complain about all the black people.

Again, they are entitled to the party.

They should not be entitled to the cake.