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Messages - Kanddak

Pages: 1 ... 16 17 [18] 19 20 ... 44
256
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Pull The Lever
« on: December 16, 2009, 01:41:53 am »
Almost all the walls on the map are dug out and the resulting floors engraved and suspended on supports.
The lever in question is presumably linked to the bottom support, but after I pulled it and DF locked up for 10 minutes, I got tired of waiting and didn't stick around to see exactly what happened. I assume the whole map turned into a dust cloud, everyone died, and the game threw a million art defacement messages.

257
No, once the economy's on you're stuck with it forever. But I'm all for killing nobles anyway.

258
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: My first Giant Cave Spider!
« on: December 15, 2009, 05:00:16 pm »
No, contrary to what Lobos posted, giant cave spiders do not have child tags unless modded. But you can add them.

259
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Auquifiers (cavein) driving me crazy
« on: December 15, 2009, 02:28:21 pm »
If the wall connects the circle to a supported part of the map, yes it will prevent collapses.
Either your circle still has some kind of connection which you'll need to find and disconnect, or you turned cave-ins off in your init file.

260
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Right, That's It!
« on: December 15, 2009, 02:25:25 pm »
Yeah, I'm going with other posters and betting your dwarves are at a disadvantage in battle because of their sobriety.
You should probably also arm them as soon as they hit legendary wrestling.
I tend to defend my forts by digging deep moats with retracting bridges to drop invaders. I used to build elaborate drowning and magma traps, but it's just not worth the effort when pit drops are so wonderfully effective.

261
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Tougher enemies
« on: December 15, 2009, 02:21:43 pm »
Yeah, the most challenging sites in vanilla are definitely undead rivers. Skeletal carp will mess you up.

I play with orcs. They aren't really that bad, I just start my forts by digging a deep hole with a retracting bridge over it.

262
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: The Perfect Magma Trap
« on: December 15, 2009, 02:18:04 pm »
I think I see what you did there! A little tricky to get a sense of from a movie.
It looks like besides the upper-level pump you use to remove fluids from the floor tile required to support grates, you also put the pumps behind a wall and use pressure to go around it, so that the pumps aren't accessible to building destroyers.

I was actually experimenting with a similar way to take this up to 3 tiles wide the other day, but it was unsatisfactory. I was leaving a whole middle row of floors with two floors of pumps, the upper floor of which would dump the magma back in through the same hole in the ceiling it was pumped out of. Because of magma's pressureless behavior, though, some 1/6 magma tended to get slopped onto the pump intakes and get left on the floors; be sure your version of the trap accounts for this. It's possible that a bit of magma adjacent to the floor could find itself without an empty space to fall into directly beneath it, and where water would just pressure-pathfind into any other empty space on that level, the magma will spill over and leave 1/7 on the floor.

I like seeing my design improved on, keep it up. :)

263
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Mandates and binned items.
« on: December 14, 2009, 04:22:34 pm »
Turn off "culling on mandates" in your bring-goods-to-depot screen.

264
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Hydrodynamics Education
« on: December 14, 2009, 03:37:12 pm »
This only happens if the u-blend is neat the end of the river, if you put the u-blend near the beginning of the river, the u-blend will fill, the river will start to drain, near the end.
You have no idea what you're talking about, please don't post silly crap that takes 5 minutes to debunk:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1877-u-bendatupstreamendofriver

265
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Water management
« on: December 14, 2009, 09:35:04 am »
Samyotix is correct about ponds. Make as many as you can, tedious as it may be.

I can't give specific architectural advice about how to pump your water without seeing your fort, but I'm sure you can figure it out.
If you're really having food problems, why not make some farms in a soil level?

266
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Trapping River Beasts
« on: December 14, 2009, 09:32:05 am »
Rivers will actually push water all the way up to the same level as the river, but because pressure pathfinding will only go up as a last resort and will prefer any down/horizontal path no matter its length, it will normally only go to one level below as long as there is available space at the downstream end of the river, which there almost always is (since water is constantly disappearing off the map edge there) unless you dam it.

267
DF Gameplay Questions / Re: Aquifer from hell
« on: December 14, 2009, 09:28:55 am »
Yeah, natural stone aquifer walls produce water. They don't need to be connected to anything. Just channel out all the walls inside your walled area and pump out the water and you'll be done.

268
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Damming brooks.
« on: December 14, 2009, 12:12:25 am »
I like to dig a tunnel underneath the brook leading to map-edge fortifications, install a lever-linked door in it, then collapse some constructed floors to break through the bottom of the brook (make sure you channel out the brook walls, though). This will allow water to drain so I can build dams, and I can pull the lever and close the door when I'm ready to turn the water back on.

269
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Hydrodynamics Education
« on: December 13, 2009, 11:32:26 pm »
I'm going to take this opportunity to tack on a few miscellaneous pieces of information about water behavior that have been studied since I made this thread.

And to show my support for necromancy, since it occurred yesterday, I have a question: If I want to make a waterfall out of an existing brook without using a pump, can I channel it off the map? One person said you could dig up to the map edge and then carve a fortification...

Water can leave from a map edge using rule 1; that is, if it's next to a map edge, and happens to flow in that direction, it falls off the edge and disappears. Magma doesn't do this, and pressure-pathfinding can't just find a path off an edge and make water vanish. You can get water to the map edge at low elevations by carving fortifications.
If you are on an ocean site, any map edge tile below sea level is an ocean source and water will come in through it. I haven't experimented with lakes but I suspect they'd be likely to work the same way. I keep hearing about aquifers too, but if you have an aquifer you have water shooting out of so many places I'm going to maintain a healthy skepticism about what's coming from the map edge until I see a good demonstration. Map edge ocean sources appear to only create water in adjacent tiles, without pressure pathfinding.

Speaking of aquifers, here's basically how they work: Any unsmoothed aquifer wall tile will periodically create water in an orthogonally adjacent space or a space below it. Aquifers don't create water diagonally, and they don't appear to use any pressure pathfinding; only adjacent spaces. Water can pressure pathfind into aquifer walls to disappear; the mechanics of this aren't precisely understood, but essentially you need to drop the water into the aquifer, you can't pump it in from the side.

River sources work like pump outputs and will pressure-pathfind to find a place to put water. Normally there is empty space near the downstream map edge created by water falling off said edge. Sometimes river flow can exceed drainage (especially but not exclusively if you dam it), and the river will then (and only then) be able to push water through a U-bend to the original height of the river (which can be how people get their wells flooded); pressure pathfinding only goes up as an absolute last resort, and will take any down/horizontal path available, no matter its length, before going up. (studied here)

Magma vents: The magma flow tiles at the bottom of vents periodically pathfind in a vertical line to find a place to create 7/7 magma, no higher than the top level of the vent. Speaking of magma, it has been confirmed by experiment that the horizontal diffusion rates of water and magma are the same, and the idea that "magma moves very slowly compared to water" is a myth stemming from magma's lack of natural pressure.

Order of evaluation, FPS issues: (gleaned from my walrus trapping adventures)
The water movement algorithm appears to break the map up into 16x16 blocks, and then evaluate water movement in each of these blocks starting from the top left corner, moving down in a column first before going right to the next row. You can observe this by dropping a fire bin into an ocean. (see here, here)
It turns out that not every water tile is evaluated on every single frame. The algorithm goes through a specific pattern, which you can observe by draining an ocean into an aquifer; on the first frame, only certain tiles will disappear into the aquifer, and so on.
It appears that long-distance pressure pathfinding is a major drain on FPS, compared to static fluids or local diffusion. When a drained ocean refills, each level begins filling quickly; as the level fills up and the remaining empty spaces become farther from the map edge, I have observed FPS deteriorating, only to improve dramatically as soon as the level fills and the ocean sources begin to fill the next level starting from spaces near the edges.

Open areas of fluids research:
There is a bug where a closed hatch can break pressure pathing such that when the hatch is opened, the game doesn't recognize that there is now a clear path, and water doesn't rise up through the hole when it should.
There is another bug where water on ocean and lake sites can be vanished as if in an aquifer by dropping it into a hole.
The exact flow rates of different water sources have never been quantified. Stream & river sources seem to create water more quickly than brooks.
The behavior of underground waterfalls (river sources) has not been studied. http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=37861.0 (Thanks Vanguard Warden)
The rules governing when waterwheels turn are still shrouded in mystery and certain power plant designs seem to work some times and not others. I've had some luck starting a power plant by throwing a bucket of water in from a couple levels up.

270
Make sure dwarves are set to haul outdoor refuse, o -> r -> o. That's the usual culprit.

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