Bay 12 Games Forum

Sorry guys, looks like you're going to get an extended day for a bit. I ended up in the hospital yesterday with some funky migraine thing that messed with my brain so bad I didn't even know who the president was.

Sorry to hear that, hopefully you feel better soon, Migraines suck.

On the other hand, I'm at least vaguely glad that the day isn't going to end in three hours. More questions need to be asked, and answered. A theory is growing.

No, Rysith. I am town. Losing me would be bad, The only information you gain is trusting CJ and a list of suspicious bandwagoners voting for me. Then the scum will be one step closer to winning. If we lynch Frelock we have pretty much won as town. We need to do this. Frelock has been much more scummy then I. Lurching, no voting, and trying to avoid unnecessary attention. I on the other had have been reasonably active, helping the town as much as I could.

Trusting CJ is quite important, if it could be done. CJ has amazing power to organize the town if he's trusted, and if I could trust him I'd gladly put my powers at his disposal. It's just the whole not trusting him right now thing that is getting in the way. I'll admit that you are much more active than Frelock, but I could definitely see this group of dopps laying the groundwork early for a false town base.

Alright, I WANT TO KNOW how, if AFD and I were dopps, we'd pull off a scheme as elaborate as claiming telepath and enchanter and not get caught rightaway?

And, of course Nuke, you're wrong. If Frelock is a human, Rysith can use his warden powers on me to disable my powers for the day, and so I wouldn't get a double vote. Your scenario isn't possible.

I expected you to be my compatriot in my fight Nuke. Would I really lie so blatantly to try and get someone lynched? I'm certain that I'm correct Nuke.

As far as I can tell, the town has no investigative roles whatsoever. Certainly none have come forward, and the closest we have come is a possible medium and a possible telepath. That would let you pull that combo off fairly easily.

And it's true, I could shut you down tomorrow if you're a dopp. I've done it before ;-). But, there is a case that that would fail:

We kill Frelock today. Frelock flips town, much to everyone's dismay, including yours. You are town, just incorrect with your guess. I shut you down, assuming you are a dopp. Another townie dies in the night, and we're at 4 town, 3 dopps, no enchanter. I suspect you of being a dopp, and in fact many people probably do. Dopps get your lynch through with town support, and town loses. Of course, it's even worse if you are actually a dopp, since I suspect that that means I'm dead, and can't lock you down for subsequent days.

Contrast that to if we lynch AFD. If AFD flips dopp, the town is significantly ahead. If AFD flips town, we know that he wasn't lying about your goal being survival, and we can trust you. A town base emerges, I lock down a dopp, and there is suddenly a pro-town voting block with an enchanter. I'd much rather take a choice of "town base with trusted lead or dopp kill" than "dopp kill or town loss".

There is a bit of information that would make everything fall nicely in to place, which I'm working on getting right now. It's nicely verifiable too, which is a definite plus. More details if that goes through.

Pre-Pre-post edit: Nuke's right, if pandar hadn't backstabbed the dopps they would be in a position to win. However, I'm pretty sure that pandar had to kill a dopp that night, to prevent the scenario that Nuke presented (a loss for him), and fairly sure that the dopps had to kill him that night (to prevent him from continuing to kill them).

chaoticjosh is right that my presence could make it a bit thorny now, but Nuke's analysis relies on all town players being active. I don't see that happening, and would like to avoid playing it that close if possible.

Pre-post edit:
Gah people, stop posting so fast!
I think that it's a reasonable plan on the dopp's part, especially the part where dopp-chaoticjosh (in hypothetical-land) gets me lynched today so I can't roleblock him tonight. But, they had already committed to the plan before I managed to stop being a viable target, and couldn't back out. I would rather cling to a reasonable theory than trust a potential dopp not to make the town lose the game.

All undead have buildingdestroyer and are automatically hostile. The scary ones are anything large. That includes giant eagles, elk, horses, sturgeon, hippos, whales, sharks, elephants, etc. The basic idea is that rather than only having to worry about the large predators, you have to worry about the large everything. Aquatic undead are able to walk on land, too. A sufficiently-trained dwarf, though, will be able to take on pretty much anything, since the undead don't have any wrestling skill.

Nuke, some CRAZY FRICKING STUFF is happening that can't be explained with normal logic: WA marching off to his doom, and Pandar pulling giant lies out of nowhere for no reason.

You're right, some crazy stuff is happening. I haven't found a consistent pattern that explains all the behavior yet, which is irritating. I hope I can by tonight.

To everyone else, me being scum doesn't match up with the voting patterns. Why would I suddenly protect CJ, after trying so hard to get him lynched two days in a row. If I were scum, detecting Nuke as a seeker with the goal of 'find' on night one would probably lead to the mafia night killing him night two. But that didn't happen did it? CJ contacted him knowing he was a protector on night 3, this shows that I did scan you. He even proved Nuke as Medium with the help of panda. This was supposed to help the town. Now look what it has done. Nuke, you are splitting the town apart. If I am lynched, the town will be short a telepath and it's doppelganger finding abilities.

You're right, lynching a town telepath, in general, would be bad. Nuke is right, though, that if you are a town telepath, then chaoticjosh is a town enchanter, and his dopp win scenario is impossible. Similarly, if you are a dopp telepath then chaoticjosh is a dopp (probably) enchanter, but we're at 7 people/2 dopps tomorrow and can pull off a lynch against him. Lynching you will either confirm chaoticjosh or prevent us from losing, whereas lynching Frelock will either kill a dopp or make us lose.

As for reasons: We already know that webadict and Alexhans were scum. If chaoticjosh is scum as well, that puts three very experienced players on the scum side. Who knows what plans they have for inserting dopps into the town base? I'll also note (despite chaoticjosh claiming his voting record irrelevant) that every vote he was in has been enough to push over a victory even without his enchanter vote. If I were a dopp, I'd feel reasonably comfortable pushing for my own people's lynch if I knew that there was an margin for error on the voting.

And, since I'm feeling analytical...

Day one you hopped around a bit on random votes, were agreed with by Alexhans and webadict (though not for suspicious things), and finally settled on chaoticjosh at Alexhans's suggestion, with very little explanation.

Day Two you accused chaoticjosh of a delayed OMGUS vote, and claimed he was scummy for voting for me. No other posts.

Certainly, voting for chaoticjosh. Not much pushing though.

And, though I'm sort of sorry about it, Nuke's analysis is quite persuasive: If we lynch you, we learn if chaoticjosh and nuke are dopps or not, and avoid a town loss. If we lynch frelock, we learn about the strength of chaoticjosh's hunches and lose if they are wrong. I'm going to vote A_Fey_Dwarf again.

What I would suggest, though, is putting up the people you have scanned the past three nights and your suspicions. That way, if you are town we can use them even after your death. We'll have to trust in our native scumhunting abilities, true, but that seems better than trusting our fate to chaoticjosh at the moment.

Okay, seriously, why is there a 120 lb weight requirement for having blood drawn?

It's about blood volume more than anything else. They need to take a full pint, and they have to be able to take that without having you either pass out on the table or pass out as you stand up from the table.

Passing out on the table is bad because then they have to stop taking blood, and if they have to stop before they have the pint they have to throw the partial collection away, since they can't mix it with other blood. Passing out as you stand up is bad for the people in the waiting room, many of whom are already apprehensive about this whole "stick sharpened tubes into my arms and draw my Precious Bodily Fluids out" thing. They would rather not take your blood than risk two people waiting to give blood get queasy or nervous (and thus have a painful blood donation experience) seeing you have trouble with it.

So: Pandarsenic may well be lying. He's an exterminator, his goal is to see everyone dead, etc.

Nuke seems fairly confirmed that he is the medium, though. That's definitely a point in his favor.

Nuke's scenario, that Pandarsenic attacked you last night, and Alex defended you, still seems possible. It would mean that you were lying about not getting an action scene, but you'd be a dopp so we'd expect that. Similarly, your scenario that Frelock is a dopp, Pandarsenic attacked Frelock last night and killed Alex instead, is also possible. Thus, "people are lying". We can, however, be fairly certain that Pandarsenic is claiming that he did not attack Frelock, since Nuke would have no reason to lie.

The one thing that people seem to agree on, though, is that Pandarsenic attacked a dopplganger last night, which Alexhans defended against, and that Nuke is the medium. I'd be tempted to say that targeting the dopp would make Panda unlikely to lie to the pro-town medium, but I already presented an analysis of why the exterminator needed to kill dopplgangers regardless of his feelings for the town, so I can't rule that out. Does completing the goal of "kill everyone" posthumously (IE coming down to one dopp, one human for the last day) count as a win for the exterminator? They'd be able to lynch each other in that case, since there would be two vote camps consisting of more than half the players, right?

There is also the totally paranoid theory that Nuke is a dopp claiming medium with a carefully orchestrated plan with chaoticjosh and A_Fey_Dwarf to claim a guaranteed pro-town role and incriminate both of them and, as the last doppleganger, pick the rest of the town apart from inside a newly-formed town base. But that's so far off into crazy and stupid and paranoia that I'm only mentioning it for humor value  .

And, since I didn't do it last post, thank you Meph for the day extension. I'll try to make the most of it.

Think of things from my perspective Rysith, I forced you to roleclaim as my suspicions are so clear that doing so would be the only way of exposing you, as I'm sure the real one would come out to reveal you.

Oh, I agree. I want nothing more than to end up with a group of demonstrable townies, since the warden's power is much less effective (and possible even harmful) if I don't have an investigative role to point out targets. A bit like blind artillery fire. That's why I'm not maintaining my vote for you, and with the day extension hopefully there can be a bit of discussion and we'll be able to figure out who can be trusted and who needs to die.

Nuke: Did chaoticjosh contact you at all?
chaoticjosh: what did you do to confirm Nuke?
A_Fey_Dwarf: What are your opinions on all of this?

Archangel, Frelock: Why the lack of posting? What are your suspicions?

Wow, I'm starting to sound like Alexhans at the beginning. But we really need more town interaction than just the four of us who are discussing things.

I've tried before. I go into shock when people stick needles into me, so they wouldn't get a full unit out before they would have to stop for safety reasons. Which kind of sucks, since I want to, and apparently I've got some special blood sub-type that they need for transfusions for infants, so they want it too.

Bay Area, California.