Bay 12 Games Forum

Nirur Torir: I still know as a fact that you did visit me. If it wasn't with the ability to give your vote like you said, then what did you target me with?

Alright, fine.

The new ability is to "redirect the actions of a random target to a random player."

I don't know how I got hit with a redirect and given a redirect power on the same night.

Unvote.
Votes normal. I don't know, unless "target gets new role and immediately uses it randomly" can be made by the generator.

Nirur Torir

At the beginning of Day 2:

Quote

Trying to read the cases leaves me feeling like all three of you are misleading or taking leaps of logic and none of you come out of it looking like town. I feel like Leafsnail's come out the most straightforward and least scummy.

At the end of Day 2:

Quote

Leafsnail only joined in when prodded to do something. And then stuck in.
I get the sense that his attacks are clean, made too carefully, and aiming to stir things up.
And he's very cagey about his reads.

So right now if I had to vote for a lynch, I'd go Leafsnail.

What changed?

Also, you jumped awfully hard on Deus Asmoth D2, for reasons I didn't really understand. What's your case on him?

As I said, I was getting confused every time I looked things over again and changing my opinions on it. (And "your attacks feel like town" > "your attacks look too clean" isn't a huge change.)

I don't have a case on him. It was basically me trying to rile Asmoth up, since no-one else had anything on him, and see if anything shook loose. Nothing did.

I plan to do some re-reading later, before I attack anyone.

Unvote
Okay wow that was a crazy thing to wake up to.

If I'm seeing it right, a no lynch hinges on having a role blocker, and on them not getting stopped in the night, followed by playing chicken with the scum over who kills Hector.

This is too many 'ifs', and my vote goes for just killing him now.

So deadline is 1:45 PM CST tomorrow.  hector13 is L-1  Let's keep this open until the time limit for conversation's sake

Indeed. I'm voting in spirit.
Hector.

Truth be told, while I can't presume to speak for Leafsnail, but if I was in his position your vote wouldn't have caused me to do a damn thing differently. 

Then how do you get someone who's done almost nothing, to do something?

Also, is your entire reason for voting Deus Asmoth just because you felt like he reacted to being called "scummy"?

Basically that. And because he wasn't doing much of anything. His last post took the wind out of my sails, but I don't see a reason to unvote.

Day won't last much longer, and I don't see anyone other than Hector, Tea, or Leafsnail being lynched.
Honestly, I'm biased towards Hector being town, because it felt like everything's based on his aggressive tunnelling for weak reasons, which is pretty much what I did last game, as town.
Perhaps because of that bias, I feel like his case on Leafsnail is the best, (which is a problem, I know)

IcyTea feels somewhat genuine. "This case is nothing, he keeps attacking anyway. He must be scum." And then it escalates.

Leafsnail only joined in when prodded to do something. And then stuck in.
I get the sense that his attacks are clean, made too carefully, and aiming to stir things up.
And he's very cagey about his reads.

So right now if I had to vote for a lynch, I'd go Leafsnail.

But I feel a bit different every day after more thought and another skim. Do you feel like this is .. anything? Or am I just missing something important?

Asmoth: Care to weigh in on Hector, Tea, and Leafsnail?

Kit: These are your D2 questions so far, since you asked:

randomgenericusername, KitRougard, and Deus Asmoth: D1's lynch came down to Hector or Spin, and you three weren't here to vote for either. I'd like for each of you to say who you'd have preferred to have your vote on, or no lynch, and why.

Kit, in particular. I feel had a much weaker D1 game than last time. I'd like to know why. What changed?
40% of your posts (2/5) mentioned SK. Is it that you're SK, is that what changed?

KitRougard: Do you need assistance on how to scumhunt? It seems to me you spent most of D1 apologizing about only knowing the nightgame. While understandable, this makes it hard to assign towncred to you.

KitRougard: Now that you have more material to work with, who would you call suspicious at this time?

KitRougard:  So the only case you seem to have is a weak one on hector13 in which you're just taking the exact same thing you said on D1 and moving it to today.  Let's play devil's advocate and say hector13 is an SK.  That still leaves the scumteam.  So who else do you think is scum and why aren't you going after them as well?

Who is scummy to me? I feel like Nirur's "so many scum" reads are intended to sow chaos in the town, get fingers pointing.

An original attack, good start. Are you gonna bring it, then, or just leave a "Nirur's scummy because x, I'm gonna do something else now?"

Shakerag:

Nirur Torir:  So have you given up on your plans to try and attack a more experienced player?  I'm also curious as to what you thought a single vote on Leafsnail (with no follow up questioning or accusations) was going to accomplish exactly?

The vote was, as stated, to pressure him to do more. He then proceeded to attack Hector. Success on that front, unvoted.
I also wanted to drop some of my feelings that bad things will happen if I attack experienced players poorly. I feel like scum hunting experienced players involves these really wordy walls of text and trying to analyze the acursed things and the thought that I said I'd do that, and feel like I now have to, makes me not want to even log in. How does anyone else deal with this, just skim them and go for the general gist?
So failure on that front.

or you're just responding aggressively for no reason other than you felt like it.

I don't especially care that you think I'm scummy, but the fact that your case so far appears to be based on little other than confirmation bias is worth noting.

Bravo, that's exactly right. There is no case on what you did D1, because you basically skipped D1.

I think my D2 plan is to get answers from Asmoth and Kit, and then to re-read the walls of attack and try to ask 'why' on various attacks that don't quite fit with each other.

Which seems so obvious that I don't know why they hurt my head.

randomgenericusername, KitRougard, and Deus Asmoth: D1's lynch came down to Hector or Spin, and you three weren't here to vote for either. I'd like for each of you to say who you'd have preferred to have your vote on, or no lynch, and why.

Kit, in particular. I feel had a much weaker D1 game than last time. I'd like to know why. What changed?
40% of your posts (2/5) mentioned SK. Is it that you're SK, is that what changed?

Nirur Torir: I'd like you in particular to comment on my above case on hector. Also:

Quote from: Nirur Torir on May 05, 2019, 09:09:04 am

Hector, Tric, and Spin. I feel like you're all making bad arguments.

Quote from: Nirur Torir on May 05, 2019, 10:21:08 am

I don't want to lynch Hector today. He spent the day mostly tunnelling, but has good justifications, and it's D1.

What are these good justifications for a bad argument?

I'll comment later, when I have more time to read and compare yours, Leafsnail's, and Hector's.
The bad argument I was not attacking you, I was referring to was this:

It is something I do all the time, because otherwise nobody pays any attention. If there were more time, I’d be poking DA and Leafsnail more about it because their responses to it are interesting, and IcyTea’s OMGUS when I corrected him on what my conclusion actually was told me my vote was in the right place to generate more content.

Which felt like a bribe. "Don't vote me and I'll keep scumhunting."