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Messages - hermes

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706
DF General Discussion / Re: Why one would give their money to the toad, rather than Sony
« on: April 12, 2012, 11:58:28 pm »
Quote from: NW_Kohaku on April 12, 2012, 10:59:50 pm
I'll also quote this bit with TinyPirate quoting Douglas Adams, since it reinforces the point:

+1 for Douglas Adams quote, that's an interesting observation.

Wide scale piracy has been around for decades now, this whole thing is rather a reaction to people being able to pay for things online; competition for consumer money has become dominated by low cost impulse purchasing.  XBL, Steam, Battle.net et al have pioneered online sales on a massive scale, and these content providers love to harp on about how secure their systems are, how easy it is to make your fortune, how developers should use their distribution.

But.. wait... oh no!  Minecraft sells millions!  Quick, buy it Microsoft!

Anybody remember Palladium?  Supposedly that was going to lock down your computer for good and give Intel a 24h feed on your grandma's measurements.  Nowhere to be seen now.  This is all just smoke and mirrors designed to excite shareholders at the end of the financial year.  When companies get into trouble they start talking a lot about how many great things they're going to make next year.  Sony?  Not a good year.

The DRM trend will continue as long as people buy locked goods.  Apple popularized DRM sales by compensating with a great "meta-experience" (walled garden), other companies are trying to follow suit.  I think, like MMORPGs and other things, the initial fad has passed and consumers 5 or 10 years from now are going to have far more choice as the tech-bubble-monopolies slowly break down.

707
DF General Discussion / Re: AI Games
« on: April 10, 2012, 12:42:50 pm »
Quote from: Cobbler89 on April 10, 2012, 10:34:13 am
Wasn't there already a project to have the same map passed out to a bunch of different players who all took videos of their playthroughs and put them on YouTube so people could compare playstyles on the same map (so, same circumstances, different responses)?

Yes... think I remember that, couldn't find it but there was something very similar here.  Seems to have used a mod and been quite open in terms of participation.

708
DF General Discussion / Re: AI Games
« on: April 10, 2012, 09:43:44 am »
Quote from: slothen on April 10, 2012, 09:15:20 am
Not very fun for the other players if only the arbitrary 'winner' gets to see the progress on the fort persist.  It makes a lot of extra work for all the players, and takes the fun out of "well, this is what happened with the fort during your predecessor's turn.  Deal with it."

Well, after the first year people will be playing with essentially the same stock of Dwarves, which will provide some continuity.  And.....

Quote
And whatever you do to your fort?  won't matter, chances are it won't be picked anyway.  Lastly, who wants to dig through 7 saves just to make a vote?  Finally, if its just the players voting, the winner is probably won't win with more than 1/2 votes over the next person.

As was mentioned, by keeping it within the players it seems reasonable that they could collude to give each other a turn sometime.  Also, chances are that as the fort progresses each player will be dealing with pretty much the same problems at the same time... and there will be write-ups, right?  So it won't be digging through saves, but reading reports on how other players dealt with similar challenges, which could be entertaining and educational at the same time.

709
DF General Discussion / Re: AI Games
« on: April 08, 2012, 11:15:40 am »
Quote from: dree12 on April 08, 2012, 10:54:23 am
Edit: Here's a modification I feel could help keep a succession-esque format:

9. After one person has his or her version of the fort selected, he or she is no longer eligible to get his or her fort selected (but can still vote).

This method ensures that the fort has a natural progression (e.g. Bob -> Donald -> Gage -> Frank -> Alice -> Carol -> Emily) rather than an unnatural "stewardship" or "dynastical" progression (e.g. Bob -> Bob -> Bob -> Donald -> Bob -> Bob -> Carol).

I considered this too, but then wouldn't players drop out if they had no chance of winning the vote?  Why stick around for 10 turns of (edit - *guaranteed*) deleted years?  Even if I sucked and one guy kept winning, the challenge to be number one would (probably!) keep me motivated.

Quote from: Deathworks on April 08, 2012, 11:03:36 am
And allowing players joining and leaving may encourage participation, especially by insecure players or those with unstable schedules. In addition, players can join in, and later leave to concentrate on further developing their version of the map, branching off at any time of their choosing.

This seems reasonable to me.  The whole thing could just run on a clock then and whoever wants to submit a story for that year can do so, no waiting for people to finish, provided someone finishes.  What does DwarfMeister say?

710
DF General Discussion / Re: AI Games
« on: April 08, 2012, 11:02:04 am »
Quote from: Sean Mirrsen on April 08, 2012, 10:44:09 am
No, everyone starts on the same map. It's just like with the yearly turnover, all saves are submitted and get voted on, winner gets distributed to everyone. Except here everyone makes their own embark, and it's the initial autosave that's submitted for voting.

This is a good idea, make the whole thing a kind of natural selection competition.

Quote from: dree12 on April 08, 2012, 10:54:23 am
This doesn't work as well as you hope. One scenario is that everyone votes for a different game, for example:

Agreed, this could be a likely scenario, but this idea is good...

Quote from: Samohan25 on April 08, 2012, 09:40:05 am
Would tie breaks always be based on votes or would latter tie breakers be based on population/wealth (if the vote results in a draw then total wealth could be a good tiebreaker).

Having some secondary deciding factor would also give a loose direction to every game in progress.

711
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 08, 2012, 08:41:36 am »
Quote from: MrWiggles on April 08, 2012, 08:29:24 am
Quote from: Chthonic on April 08, 2012, 08:07:54 am
I'm foreseeing one possible terrible minecart unexpected behavior (not going to call it a bug, because it only kind of is).  Suppose you're moving stone.  Your dwarves move it to a receiving stockpile and throw it from there into the cart.  The cart transports it halfway across the map.  At the initial end, they run out of stone.  Dwarves at the terminus pick up the transported stone and start hauling it all the way back to the initial stockpile to keep it full.
That wouldn't be a bug though. Thats all working as expected. It just defies real world logic and real world common sense.
Plus you could totally stop that from happening with burrows.

Well, from the way it's described in today's devlog, it doesn't seem either illogical nor a big problem...

Quote
Each stop gets a list of stockpile parameters, and the stops can be linked to stockpiles and given conditions before the vehicle is set to depart.

Seemingly certain stockpiles shall be linked to routes, so I wouldn't expect the non-sanctioned-stockpile-to-stockpile hauling you mentioned to ever happen.  I could be wrong, but stockpile-to-stockpile hauling doesn't even happen now, right? It seems possible that workshops may prompt hauling from distant stockpiles, but then one would assume that works just as it does now, in which case there wouldn't be any closer material so your fort design was borked in the first place.   There doesn't seem to be much reason to worry here.

What would be rather cool would be if workshops could be linked to stockpiles too, to really lock down the production chain.

(edit - just checked the wiki and I did not know that you can already specify stockpile-to-stockpile hauling, but it does have to be designated by the player, man I feel bad I didn't know that!  :( )

712
DF General Discussion / Re: AI Games
« on: April 08, 2012, 05:52:21 am »
Just to clarify that last part, only the winning map is carried forward to the next round?

Sounds like a neat idea, I'm terrified of joining community games because I'll screw everything up, so this style of game takes some of that pressure off at least :)   If you start up a game I'd be in.

Voting could potentially be tricky, even with an odd number of players votes could be distributed and you can end up with ties...?  Perhaps others, apart from the players, could vote too?  (edit - could do runoffs though)

713
DF General Discussion / Re: Movies retold in DF announcements
« on: April 07, 2012, 08:57:04 am »
William Munney cancels herd pig: too aged
William Munney cancels mount horse: too aged
Sheriff Little Bill is fighting William Munney!
William Munney cancels fight back: too sick
Sheriff Little Bill is fighting Ned!
Sheriff Little Bill is enraged!
Ned has been struck down
William Munney cancels sobriety: too pissed
William Munney has entered a marshal trance!
Everyone has been struck down

I just watched The Unforgiven again last night.  Awesome movie, and I think on second watching it's easier to pick up on the subtext.

714
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 04, 2012, 11:03:05 pm »
Yes you're right, I didn't think about that.  Single lines it could well be, would perhaps make the "fortress writing" more legible too.

Quote from: EmeraldWind on April 04, 2012, 10:38:34 pm
I happy to see he's considering making a way to include mine carts in previous versions by putting in a default. I just made a fort and I'd hate to miss such a nice opportunity to fail at DF. (Even if at this point it sounds like a maybe, I'm glad he's thinking about it.)

I had the same feeling, but depending on how drastically the mining changes will affect mining speed and fortress design, it could feel umm, weird to have a fort built using the two different systems. ?

715
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 04, 2012, 10:20:39 pm »
Quote from: BradUffner on April 04, 2012, 09:57:51 pm
I'm pretty sure the "4 Directions" thing means North, South, East, and West.  No diagonals.  From what I've read it does this kind of tracking so that it can tell that 2 parallel tracks in directly adjacent cells aren't connect with each other, but only with cells on the same line...

Yes, I was confused by the four directions thing, but this makes sense.  The double-lined tiles can then be used for tracks very easily.  Ooh, question, don't know if this has been asked...

If track connections during construction are dependent on the order in which each section is built, does this mean that the order of designation by the player is tracked in "real time" so to speak, or would we have to build a section, wait for it to be constructed, then designate again if tracks run parallel?

edit - though it has just occurred to me that if routes are designated, and given direction connectivity at designation, construction could be carried out automatically along those routes?

Quote from: Willfor on April 04, 2012, 09:59:46 pm
Confirmed mine cart physics for the next release in the devlog. Some of our best fears confirmed. Excellent!

Most excellent...

Hehe, after everyone started fantasizing about minecart physics I'm more relieved than anything that Toady confirmed this!  Only thing we need now is a dwarf hauling task.

Beast of burden hauling, feeding stations?  Man, I haven't even tamed anything yet, slow down the development a bit, Toady.   ;)

716
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 04, 2012, 07:30:32 am »
Quote from: Watsst on April 04, 2012, 07:12:42 am
This is gonna inspire many ideas, and require me to massive upgrade my hallway widths

From the other threads it seems like many are anticipating making dedicated cart tunnels behind the scenes, keeping the main walkways hauling free and fancy.  These developments could entail really big changes in fortress planning, specific details could not be any more anticipated.  15 hours till next devlog... *gazes at lovely F5*

717
DF General Discussion / Re: DF World Map Wallpaper
« on: April 03, 2012, 10:39:20 pm »
This looks surprisingly awesome as the wallpaper on my phone.  Thanks!   :)

718
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 03, 2012, 10:20:02 pm »
Yowzer!  Tracks?  Carts?  Wheelbarrows?  Definitely donating after this release. 

Quote from: Willfor on April 03, 2012, 09:39:19 pm
Personally, I'm hoping for mine carts that can be weaponized. I don't generally try to weaponize everything I get my hands on, but mine carts sound especially weaponizable to me.

Wheelbarrows too   :D

719
DF General Discussion / Re: Am I the only one who actually LIKES the ASCII?
« on: April 03, 2012, 12:04:53 am »
I learnt to play from Captn duck and using Maydays graphics, they really helped as a newbie.  Now I am still really impressed with the graphics sets, they look beautiful.  I also agree with the gameplay argument Kohaku makes.  However I just have a feeling that, on some level, some proponents of graphics (or UI reform ) are trying to appropriate design / gameplay control to a certain extent, and that bugs me.  It has happened before and I guess it will again.  I dont agree with UI or graphics hacking, so until that group calms down a bit i will be using ASCII because I like the simplicity, its what the game is designed for, and to make a nonsensical stand for patience, like how a dwarf waits to be engulfed by the approaching forest fire.  :o

720
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: April 02, 2012, 08:26:28 pm »
Quote from: Toadonalog
Seeing a single dwarf clean up a seed-ridden dining room as a single job is a beautiful thing.

Yipes.  Can you believe this is happening?  I don't think there has been a better update within memory.  What on earth are peasants going to do with all this new free time?

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