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Messages - Antsan

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856
Life Advice / Re: Friend with a particular attachment problem. Can anyone relate?
« on: October 02, 2014, 04:42:52 am »
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Humans created this world. Humans created these problems. Humans did all of this. Anything you see around yourself is humans' fault.
Humans didn't create this world - they evolved inside of it.
Humans created some of these problems in the course of trying to solve other problems - often without taking proper care, which you don't seem to like, judging by this comment:
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They just did it. Without overcomplicating stuff, without making new problems or other things like this.
They did not do "all of this". Diseases aren't human made. Humans don't make tsunamis and earthquakes. They do not make volcanoes erupt. They did not cause famine and hunger - they only fail to combat it, which is quite different.

And actually ants make war, too. And if they were actually capable of building atom bombs they probably would use them.

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And this 'complicated world' is made by the same humans. It's all their fault.
Nope. It was already complicated before humans came around. Thousands of species extinct before humans came to be is proof enough of that.

857
Life Advice / Re: Friend with a particular attachment problem. Can anyone relate?
« on: October 02, 2014, 04:27:15 am »
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Really, it happens all the time. It comes to a point when people in, say, Europe can't even say a word against muslims, because they would end up in the prison, marked as racists.
Same in any first-world countries. White population is being discriminated now. They have no right to criticise, to fight back, to even say a word against minorities.
I live in Germany. We are probably the only country which is mocked on how damn oversensitive we supposedly are in issues regarding racism.
What you say is not true. As long as they don't shout "Heil Hitler" or display svastikas they can say whatever they want and they certainly don't go to prison.

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It took a day for Applejack and RD to understand that putting competition over friendship is bad.
It took a day for Pinkie and Cheese to understand that if they will work together, they could achieve a lot more than working alone.
It took several days for Applejack to understand that it's not bad to ask for help when you need it.
They just did it. Without overcomplicating stuff, without making new problems or other things like this.
They need to present a solution in the time of 20 minutes. They don't do realistic portrayal.

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Humans like to make theory over theory over theory and fight because of that.
Yeah. It's not due to malice, it's because we live in a complicated world.

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And besides -- have you seen ponies killing each other, trying to make others believe in their imaginable friends? Humans do it all the time.
If you want a children's show that is more honest about this kind of stuff, I'd recommend you seek out Alfred Jodokus Kwak. People don't die there, but the series actually tackles the problems of war, racism, totalitarianism, unemployment problems, crime and many other things that many people believe shouldn't be shown to children. MLP is an awesome show but it is not a fair portrayal of how complex conflicts evolve.

858
Life Advice / Re: Friend with a particular attachment problem. Can anyone relate?
« on: October 02, 2014, 04:03:35 am »
Okay, for this I'll have to dig deeper.

We have horrible preconditions, that is definitely true. Those were here when our ancestors where still living in caves. Back then getting food was a problem. Dying of hunger or disease was normal back then everywhere.
People started working on those basic problems. They didn't even notice all the other problems they had and they were right to not focus on them - they probably wouldn't have survived if they had cared about the stuff we do today, not even taking into account that many of our problems weren't really problems back then. Society was different.
Over the course of their lives those people adopted certain views of the world. Those were simplified models of how the world actually operates, that is to say, they had flaws that would lead to errors in decision making. This is, as far as I can tell, completely unavoidable for mathematical reasons - that is I believe that there can be no world where that isn't an issue.
So, those people made mistakes which they felt were not mistakes at all but justified behaviors which, by the world view they built themselves through hard labor, should make the world a better place - at least that is what they thought. Them being wrong doesn't change anything about that. Now they had children (or later grandchildren). They knew how hard it was to get along in the world and they wanted their offspring to be better off, so they taught them their world view. The problem is that children more often than not have experiences that differ from the ones their parents have (although it might have been less pronounced back then than it is now). That means that all the flaws in the model of the world they get taught become way more apparent for them than for their parents. This is a great source for conflict - not only for conflict between generations but also conflict internal to one person (as can be seen in almost anyone living today).
Whatever, such a conflict has several effects - most importantly it is a genuinely new problem that wasn't there before. Try programming once and you'll see that trying to make a working model of a problem to solve it can generate new problems pretty effectively. This is actually the first reason why we aren't living in the kind of world you (and I) wished we were living in - trying to solve problems can generate new ones that then also need to be solved. That is also a reason to not just implement the first solution to a problem that comes to mind - unintended consequences could have effects that actually make the whole solution futile. So there are a lot of people who try to avoid that and thus work slowly in things. (One backfiring solution for third world poverty was sending clothes. The unintended consequence was that it destroyed local markets, which might have been no problem when other problems we have already had been solved, but that was not the case, so it was a problem.)
But that's not all. You see, conflict tends to radicalize people, especially on controversial points, which means that at least one (and in most instances it is probably two) wrong impressions of how the world work get more incorrect. Yes, this is how humans work and it is also depicted in MLP - just have a look at how Rainbow Dash and Applejack treat each other at times. Yes, they work it out and in the end don't end up being worse off than before, but then they don't have to deal with most other problems humans still have to face every day, so they've got more capacities free to actually concentrate on that problem.
Now, if someone corrects a part of his world view it doesn't mean he does it right. Correcting yourself correctly isn't really easy and often hit or miss. That's why we have certain methods in science and those don't come easy to many people and I guess there is almost no one (or even plain noone) who follows them naturally - assuming that the procedures we have even are the correct way of going about corrections. So plenty of people have their views challenged by something that happens to them, they attempt a correction and for some reason they get it wrong. Hooray, you have just gotten a new source for conflict and more problems!

At this point I want to point out that all this is something that, in an abstract way, probably applies to any kind of universe. Equestria is just further along in that slow progress along a long line of mistakes and corrections - judging by the technological state of Equestria they focused on social development more than on technological one, which is probably more feasible for them than for us due to magic.

So, this part especially:
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Those who are opposite good things outnumber those who want to change something. It's a fact that doesn't need any proves, 'cause... well, you just have to look around to understand it.
it's a premature conclusion. All of the suffering we face today is quite explainable without malice ever entering the picture. Yes, there is malice, but it's an insignificant contributor in comparison to what I was talking about above. Malice is negligible.
Getting stuff wrong isn't. People misunderstand the universe all the time, they misunderstand other people and, well, ascribe malice where there only is a disconnect between how people see the world. Following from this wrong accusation of malice follows the felt need to defend oneself against malice, to make sure one isn't the target of it, which oftentimes leads to preemptive action - congratulations, that's a new conflict and now no one will back off because they think the others will rip them to pieces if they do.

859
Life Advice / Re: Friend with a particular attachment problem. Can anyone relate?
« on: October 02, 2014, 03:02:26 am »
Yes, it is unfair. Still, it is a problem that is acknowledged and being worked on, which is something that wasn't the case a 100 years ago. There's still an improvement and working on making it happen faster is an option that is pursued by many people.

In regards to the whole therapy thing: Social workers I know have told me that therapy can take decades. Many people who are showing the usual signs of therapy working are quitting because it doesn't work fast enough and they expect effects after a few months.

860
Life Advice / Re: Friend with a particular attachment problem. Can anyone relate?
« on: October 02, 2014, 02:52:02 am »
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and they didn't do anything.
In the first world we've got running water. Medical sciences are advancing steadily. Life expectancy is going up. People are able to experiment with how to live (at least where I live) and they seem to be making progress. Universities seem to be making a move to make the results of their research publicly accessible. Literacy is going up and the same goes for education in general. They certainly do something and it works.

861
DF Suggestions / Re: Innovations! (Or: A Modest Proposal to Change Strange Moods)
« on: October 01, 2014, 04:10:29 am »
The problem I see with inventions that they'd either need to be procedurally generated (which I imagine to be quite hard and prone to pretty weird results) or in the raws/hardcoded, which essentially limits the amount of moods one can have per civilization/fort and moodable skill (that seems too predictable for my tastes).
I'd prefer incremental changes to item types.

862
General Discussion / Re: Internet habits which annoy you.
« on: October 01, 2014, 03:43:18 am »
Quote from: Flying Dice on September 30, 2014, 04:23:48 pm
Having valid complaints or presenting them in a "clever" manner doesn't prevent you from being a hypocritical asshat. It's the central problem I have with a great many SJWs; they start with the argument "Society is fundamentally inequal in many respects," but then instead of concluding "Let's work to fix it," they default to "Fucking privileged cishet white male scum need to shut up, they don't have anything to contribute,". Not all, of course, but too many. Though again, Poe's Law at work, and it can be hard to differentiate between trolls, vocal extremists, and everyone else who gets lumped in with one or both of the above because generalization is easy.
Oh. It's not what I got out of that text, just general annoyace at people shutting down criticism.
It's not like he attacked opinions, just the way in which they are presented.

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Put simply, I try my best to be an even-minded egalitarian as far as social issues go. People are people, and everything else is trivial in comparison. So it really hurts to see people objecting to hatred default to hatred as their response, especially when it's this sort of impotent and ineffective internet posturing. I expect blind hatred from white supremacists, religious dogmatics, and so forth, which is the main reason why I tend to pay less attention to them than to people who should know better when it comes to debate (though of course it's a higher priority in political action due to the greater effect it has on society.) :|
Wel, see, that's one of the things that's so annoying. You are looked down upon, being treated like shit and then you are expected to be reasonable. "Look, I am staying totally calm while you are getting all angry."
It needs to be pointed out. If you are being beaten it's normal to lash out - it might not be sensible and it might not help, but it's understandable and putting down someone because he is getting angry because he is pushed to that instead of helping them to face the ones who are trying to be offensive and make them angry on purpose will make the problem even worse.

863
General Discussion / Re: Internet habits which annoy you.
« on: September 30, 2014, 02:09:58 pm »
Quote from: Flying Dice on September 30, 2014, 10:40:18 am
Quote from: Antsan on September 30, 2014, 06:28:53 am
It's annyoing when people complain about other people writing about themselves. What else can one write about competently?

Quote from: Ogdibus on September 19, 2013, 04:32:58 pm
Arguments made entirely, or almost entirely from logical fallacies and derailing tactics.   In fact, it's so rare that I see an argument where one or both sides aren't doing this, that you could say arguments annoy me.  Sometimes they're downright scary.

Here's a guide that will help people recognize derailing tactics, and control if and when they use them.  I'm finding it best not to participate in conversations where these are present.

Logical fallacies are a little different because there are so many, it's hard to keep track of them.  Some of them are more forgivable than others, too.  "False Premise, True Conclusion" is occasionally going to happen to even the most informed and intelligent people, because technology tends to improve the capability of science to find "facts", thus correcting the "old facts".



...also, unrelated:  I take too long to post, and get ninja'ed a lot, because of it.


Edit: forgot the link
The text behind that link makes me extremely uncomfortable. Reading that already feels like arguing over the Internet.
I might have a problem there.
Turned off by the virulently sarcastic ranting of a SJW? Nope, perfectly normal. You certainly do, you privileged person! After all, anecdotal evidence and righteous anger form a much better basis for one's opinions than anecdotal evidence and ignorance (or even, gasp, in some rare cases, scientific research), and the appropriate way to deal with people you don't agree with is to browbeat them until they throw their hands in the air, which is your signal to celebrate victory. But you probably won't have much luck getting arguments with people who have an irrational expectation of the conversation being a mutual exchange, so you should probably limit yourself to blog ranting about generalized stereotypes who make judgements based on generalized stereotypes. ::)

That's not to say that what the author of that was trying to say in a roundabout way isn't an issue, but spirits, that sort of unwittingly ironic self-righteousness makes me gag.
I have no idea what "SJW" stands for. Okay, I looked it up - why is that a SJW?
I agree with their point. In fact I agree so much that reading it makes me angry despite knowing it's satirical. That is what I call "a problem".
It's not like this is part of an actual discussion, it's just a satire of trollish behavior. Why is that wrong?

@tahujdt:
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"Dear cis people: just because I'm gay without a penis doesn't mean I like c*** up my a**. I'm a dominant top."


...
...
...
WITH WHAT?
Uhm... Do you actually want to speculate about that? If not, why are you asking? The possibilities are endless! It's not like you can only have sex with your genitals.
I mean, this kind of assumption is probably what they were complaining about in the first place.
I'd advice to use your fantasy a bit and if you are then grossed out enough you might want to just assume that you don't know anything about other peoples sexuality at all. Actually, you can skip that first step.

864
General Discussion / Re: Internet habits which annoy you.
« on: September 30, 2014, 06:28:53 am »
It's annyoing when people complain about other people writing about themselves. What else can one write about competently?

Quote from: Ogdibus on September 19, 2013, 04:32:58 pm
Arguments made entirely, or almost entirely from logical fallacies and derailing tactics.   In fact, it's so rare that I see an argument where one or both sides aren't doing this, that you could say arguments annoy me.  Sometimes they're downright scary.

Here's a guide that will help people recognize derailing tactics, and control if and when they use them.  I'm finding it best not to participate in conversations where these are present.

Logical fallacies are a little different because there are so many, it's hard to keep track of them.  Some of them are more forgivable than others, too.  "False Premise, True Conclusion" is occasionally going to happen to even the most informed and intelligent people, because technology tends to improve the capability of science to find "facts", thus correcting the "old facts".



...also, unrelated:  I take too long to post, and get ninja'ed a lot, because of it.


Edit: forgot the link
The text behind that link makes me extremely uncomfortable. Reading that already feels like arguing over the Internet.
I might have a problem there.

865
Life Advice / Re: Friend with a particular attachment problem. Can anyone relate?
« on: September 30, 2014, 02:55:34 am »
Guys, guilt tripping is never a valid strategy, especially not for someone with suicidal tendencies.

@Sam:
Where I live one cannot be put into an asylum against his own will. Also one cannot be forced to take any kind of medication.
I don't know whether that is the case where you live.
I have a depressed brother. Getting professional help helped and helps him immensely. He hasn't become a mindless drone and he is very much himself - he is just able to cope with the bad and see the good better. Having black tinted glasses glued onto your nose is not a part of yourself, it's a hindrance to your wellbeing.

Change your living conditions. If you can, move somewhere else. You aren't responsible for the world, you are responsible for yourself. If where you are living is destroying you that means you need to move. Find out where there is a space in the world for you and then go there. Getting away from what gets you down every day can make the whole world seem absolutely different.
If you can, find help. Humans are social creatures from the start (and much more so than most other species in our world).

Remeber that the ponies in MLP aren't really ponies - they are idealized humans who have been put into fantasy pony bodies to make little girls interested in buying stuff. This is not saying that MLP is only about selling stuff (it very much is about many other things and I love the show), I just want to make it absolutely clear to you that the characters in the show are designed after human ideals, not alien ideals. Those ideals where made and are pursued by human beings and not by anything else in our world.

Humans are working at making our world better. Our world has been getting better for centuries now. It is a slow process, but generally it is the case that tomorrow will be better than today. Quitting because today is bad prevents you from seeing the better tomorrow.

The worst humans tend to be the loudest. Don't believe them when they tell you that most humans are bad. They are lying to make you afraid of opposing them. And some, like you, believe them and unwittingly help them spread this misunderstanding. I am not telling you to oppose them - I am telling you to realize that they are not the majority. You are not responsible for them, you are still only responible for yourself.

Being responsible for yourself does not mean you should become an egomaniac. As I said humans are social creatures and so are you. Getting along with others, helping them, getting help, being friends, is part of makes life enjoyable. People who go for naive egoism are seldomly happy. They aren't really good at being responsible for themselves as they ignore a part of what they are.

In the end becoming happy depends on your choices. It obviously is harder for you than for me. I doubt it is impossible.

I don't think I can help you any more than this (if that helped at all), although I will try if you want me to (and just maybe even if you don't want me to - sorry about that).

866
Life Advice / Re: Is the real world really as scary as i think it is?
« on: September 30, 2014, 01:50:48 am »
I feel I've made a severe mistake. I am sorry about the tone of what I wrote and some irresponsible generalizations I made.
I am also very thankful that anyone here kept calm despite my inflammatory manner. That's worth a lot, so, thank you.

Quote from: Retropunch on September 28, 2014, 02:57:00 pm
Antsan, I do see where you're coming from, but I wasn't telling Shook that he should 'work for the man' or become a drone to society, but to strive to better him/herself. S/He could become a champion basket weaver, or create the worlds greatest freeware and that's fine. I'd say that whilst you can become a slave to society and the rat race, you can equally become a slave to futility and mediocrity. You seem to be someone who wants to see the human race improve and get out of the cycle we're in, so surely it's better to strive to better yourself (and it through your achievements) rather than just shun everything because you don't like it?
Yes, that is right. My general feeling is just that the problems in our world don't come from insufficient productivity but insufficient empathy (this is a simplification, but I hope you get what I actually want to say), which is basically what I am complaining about with that last paragraph - it always seems only to be about more productivity, not becoming a more accepting person.
Please note that this is only meant as a clarification, not as an attack or defense.

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As you pointed out, the problem does come at money. So you need some realism, and as much as you can hate the system - that's the one that we've got. So what I was trying to encourage was just for Shook to find what s/he loves and really go for it as that's a THOUSAND times better than being rubbish at everything and having to drudge through your time in a dead end job, scraping away enough for a pension.
 
[...]

Lastly, while the Pareto Principle makes a lot of sense, the problem is that you can't measure effort and putting 80% effort in tends to gradually be less. It's the mediocrity thing again - why settle for second best? Sure, don't kill yourself over things of little consequence, but for the big picture things, why bother putting in less than everything you've got?
Retropunch, I misunderstood your meaning. I am sorry for my tone back there (which should be independent of me having misunderstood, but sadly I probably wouldn't have thought of it without your clarification :-[ ).

Quote from: Meph on September 25, 2014, 07:15:44 am
Just a little addition: Military service in Germany was actually pretty good for character building, and most people that were in my unit think the same way. Than again, all of them volunteered to be there, obviously forcing someone into it would have contrary results. But I enjoyed my time there immensely.
I should have referred to the "they break you and put you back together stronger than before" specifically and left my personal dislike of anything military out of it.

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Edit: I agree about all the rest with Antsan. Except maybe the "unrealisticly high expecations of yourself will break you", which I wouldnt say myself.
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I 100% do NOT agree that pushing yourself or having high expectations will break you. Never have I seen that be the case and only have I seen the opposite to be the case.
To clarify: I know quite a few people with clinical depression and for them aiming for the stars only ever seemed to make things worse until they decided to take things slowly and first get their life in order before they go beyond basic neccessities.
My blatant generalization is not valid.

867
General Discussion / Re: Calm and Cool Progressive Discussion Thread
« on: September 29, 2014, 03:11:07 pm »
PTW. I'll also leave that here:

Quote from: SalmonGod on September 28, 2014, 07:08:54 pm
It's more profitable to minimally invest in cheating the metrics than it is to invest a great deal more in operating in good faith to create genuine progress.
That is distinctively well put, I think. Not only in relation to privatized prisons, that is.

868
Creative Projects / Re: Suggest a book
« on: September 25, 2014, 06:06:00 am »
Unfortunatley I don't know either of the books you mentioned, so I cannot really make fitting suggestions.

If you're into fantasy, consider "The Kingkiller Chronicles" by Patrick Rothfuss. It's masterfully written and I've never read any fantasy like it.

If you can use philosophical science fiction I recommend anything by Stanislaw Lem.
If you'd like something more lighthearted, try anthing with Ijon Tychi by him like "The Star Diaries" or "The Futurological Congress". Stories with Pirx ("The Test") are a bit more serious.
If you aren't afraid of something more long winded I'd recommend "Solaris", "Master's Voice" and "Golem". Read them in that order, they read increasingly like scientific reports instead of a novel, but in my eyes all of them are worth it.

869
Life Advice / Re: Is the real world really as scary as i think it is?
« on: September 25, 2014, 05:35:51 am »
Rant incoming.
Shook, if you want me to remove it just say so.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

870
DF Suggestions / Re: Races and Wars
« on: September 22, 2014, 07:53:25 am »
Launching attacks on others is also planned, but I guess it's not going to be done soon.

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