Bay 12 Games Forum

Fakedit: Ninja'd.  Nice that an ally beat me to it *slight smile*.  I'll post anyway

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Target already did it with their Pride display a week before Pride even started, yeah.  Not a great sign, but a good indication of the "support" of rainbow capitalism.  It wasn't even the profitable move IMO... I suspect individuals at the company were scared of getting sacked like the ones at Bud Light, and betrayed their shareholders (and us, of course).

You did praxis o7
(salute)

I had to mask my self a lot recently, but yesterday I got home.

I dreamed my "brother" and I were partying in a big, eerily empty city.  We walked strange backstreets, staircases, and rode a fully automated metro.  Mostly, we sang.  Old pop songs that my brother and I sang as children becoming adults, when we felt cut off from everyone but each other.  We were also casually half-naked, metaphorically all the barriers were down.

In this dream I didn't have to be on guard with him, or him with me.  We were reconciled and things were the way they had been.

But this wasn't my brother.  This was my subconscious passenger, my masculine mirror, rewarding me for staying sober and processing my feelings yesterday.  I/we have truly grown as a person.

I also found a full day's worth of little teal pills on the ground and put them in my mouth, which got me lightly chided by him.  But it was a dream, where we can have a little gender euphoria.  As a treat.

Quote from: EuchreJack on May 26, 2023, 09:16:05 am

Or, if a rogue cycling promoter wanted to make some real money, they'd go full-inclusion in defiance of the BC decision.

There is a reason such divide exist in competitive sports. An open sports events where everyone competes together means that biological female would be excluded from wining,

Just factually untrue.  Individual women win against individual men all the time, despite professional women's sports receiving far less funding and thus training budget and general support.  It is harder to be a woman athlete, and less financially rewarding, yet they still sometimes outcompete... when they're allowed to.  This is actually why women's sports leagues were formed, because men couldn't handle occasionally losing to mere women.

as athletic performances clearly show that the best result female ever achieved in Olympics has been outperformed by hundreds and thousands of males tens of thousands of times.

The fallacy here is looking at record-setting individuals to make policy for general competition.  By this logic, it's unfair for US swimmers to compete against any other swimmers because Michael Phelps is just that good.

With this in mind and current data suggesting that Trans female enjoy performance advantage,

Citation needed.  Here's one that acknowledges some advantage:
https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988
Trans women usually have insignificant athletic advantage over cis women, if any, after enough time on HRT.  There's one exception: The data suggests a permanent 10% advantage in running speed, likely due to height/bone size (after male puberty, which conservatives are forcing on trans girls).

Does that 10% justify excluding trans people from all sports, or rather height categories for track and cross-country competitions?  Trick question: I don't think it justifies either.  There are countless factors which are more significant.

For other sports any advantage is even less detectable.  There are, in fact, physical advantages to being a woman.  This is presumably why, despite incredibly dishonest rhetoric, trans people are not dominating sports at any level.  If the propaganda was true then we'd be snatching up gold medals by now.  We're not.

what you suggest would at best be fad, since most female (who already get payed less than males) would not choose to participate, and trans community is too small to sustain such events. So fad slogans on its own wouldn't pave the way forward but further research to figure out what fields are comparable or come up with different classifications that would be fair for everyone.

The real issues facing women athletes in general are pretty important to me, as a feminist.  Professional sports is designed to be resistant to change, for better or for worse, and I don't have a magic bullet to fix the deep iniquities in it.

The issue certainly isn't trans people.  These "concerns" are nothing more than a cudgel used by paternalists to depict us as attacking their dainty weak women, which is all sorts of fucked up, and I'm sick to death of people peddling it.
I don't mean that personally, jipehog, as you're far from the only person who brings this issue up.  I'm just completely exhausted with it.  Which is EXACTLY its purpose.  It's FUD, meant to keep people playing defense and radicalize credulous moderates.

I'd say I'd rather talk about the situation in Florida, or the heaps of new bills being proposed in my home state of NC, but I don't want to do that either.  I just got home from three days of caring for my dad who, last night, opined that people who don't procreate are pointless and might as well die (and yeah, I'm fully out to him).  This weekend I plan to love my partner, play some mindless video games, and do my level best to stay away from any alcohol because I know I'll go on a bender if I get the chance.

so sick of this sports bullshit.  If people really care about sports then maybe THEY should fix them. I hate being expected to fix something I didn't break just because lying misogynists are accusing US of misogyny for trying to participate.

On the bright side I looked like crap a few days ago, after exercising (I'm sorry!!  I know that's extremely political of me!!) and I got correctly gendered to my complete surprise.  I really needed that.

ugggh I really need to budget in "watch Steven Universe finally".
Dunno what it even does to people who already know they're trans

That’s an extreme response. Why not ask what they mean by that? Understand their viewpoint? Treat them like a human, flawed as they may be, just as you want to be treated as a human.

All banning them does is isolate them, encourage them to avoid interacting with others and so have a limited and isolated worldview.  Sure you don’t have to let them abuse you, but defeat their ignorance with kindness, not force.

Yeah.  "In your ideal future, why do people like you still exist?" IS an extreme response.
Thankfully we understand it perfectly and can block, report and move on.

Like, let's not minimize what you're suggesting here.  This person not only thinks LGBT people ideally shouldn't exist.  They take for granted, as obvious, that WE don't want US to exist either.  And you think we should treat this person like a human?

Okay yeah, I'm going to treat this person like an adult and not coddle them like an infant.  That would be disrespectful of me.  I'm going to value my own mental health at least as much as theirs, because we're both humans.  I'm not going to pretend that they didn't just imply that I shouldn't exist.  I'm going to do what humans do when other humans insult them: I'm going to be insulted.

If they need to LEARN that I'm a fucking human being, they're in luck!  I support queer representation in media, which normalizes our existence and fights against the stigma that was implanted in SO many people (us included) growing up.  That's going to do more than me holding a bigots hand, treating their position as if it has ANY value whatsoever, and gradually convincing them that I have an inner world.

I TRIED that, with someone I considered a close friend.  Maybe it's possible.  I know it hurts, a lot, and I didn't have the self-confidence to pull it off.  I learned more self-loathing from him than he learned tolerance from me.  If I had spent that time seeking to understand myself rather than trying to manipulate a bigot into being a good person, he and I would BOTH be better off.  I did him no favors by being his token gay friend, and humoring his shittiness.  I only emboldened him.

Again, the better strategy is to live well (and as openly as you can safely do so)... and to respond to open bigotry with social consequences.  That's how society works, and it's the respectful response.  Bigots ARE humans, not infants or robots, and they're responsible for their actions.  Bigotry thrives when it's humored, and shrivels when people express disgust at it.

Edit: Because to be clear: self-harm is a problem in the LGBT community.  Because we've been taught to hate ourselves or *at best* to wish we were "normal".  That's highly internalized, particularly the older the person is.  That's not an impulse we can AFFORD to humor.  It NEEDS a stern rejection, both internally or externally.  (it's an incorrect impulse, implanted by intentional media campaigns AND BIGOTS MAKING JOKES, and it's very deeply installed.)

The one proper pronunciation (tiktok)