Bay 12 Games Forum

Aaaah, that's too complex for my sleepy brain, but on the first glance I like it. :-)

Also I support Yaddy for the Director position and Hilscher to remain Chairdwarf for another term.

It's also a great pity we lost some of our members.

Technical question: should we build a dwarf-incinerator machine to imitate the dwarf emigration from the community?

Wow. Just wow.

Well guys, it's a bit late here (in fact it's long past midnight) so I'll be brief and to the point.

First, I have no damn idea what the entire conflict is about. True, I seen Grail's criticism of Goron's work as a chairdwarf but I didn't expect to see such an escalation. Probably I will have to re-read the thread to understand what the hell happened.

Second, regarding Grail's (and Hilscher's) arguments. It seems to me that Grail has forgotten what kind of government we have here. And by this I mean democracy. And democracy doesn't mean that the community will immediately recognize and embrace the wisdom of your ideas. In fact, most of the time it's exactly the opposite.

By the way, there couldn't be any attempts to revise the voting system for the simple reason that we never had any official voting system in the first place. This system is still being discussed.

Third, regarding Goron's suggestion to remove Grail from the game. I strongly recommend to avoid making such motions in the future. If this is a kind of democracy which kicks out anyone who disagrees then I'd rather be a totalitarist. Personally, I feel the only reason for player removal from the game should be continued non-participation and inactivity, or resignation by the player himself. Which obviously does not apply to Hilscher who is very much active.

Anyway, if some dwarves decide to settle somewhere else - that's their right I guess. But that's equivalent to emigration in my book, even if the distance is short, which means that emigrating dwarves will lose their right to vote on the community issues.

Last in my list is Emmanovi's suggestion to write a Charter, or a Constitution, or whatever. But my brain is already turning off from lack of sleep so my opinion on this will have to wait until tomorrow.

I'd suggest to extend the motioning period for another 24 hours. Otherwise just a single day absence from the forum for whatever RL reasons may cost a player his ability to present his ideas to the community.

Thus:

T+00 .. T+24: new motions can be made and seconded.
T+24 .. T+48: motions can be made, seconded and voted on.
T+48 .. T+72: only voting is allowed.

Quote from: Lav on June 11, 2009, 03:33:36 am

Additional motion. It has been suggested before that the director works a one-year term instead of one-season term, for the sake of continuity. Since that was not yet reflected in the current list of motions, I hereby officially motion this idea.

Do you mean a year of uninterrupted direction, or they take four seasons in succession with our current system? If the former, then I might conditionally vote for it if regular, at least seasonal updates are provided, so the community can still react to events.

That was my original intention. One-year term, seasonal updates. Community may choose to replace the director before the expiration of his term if he's doing a bad job or if his turn is taking too much time.

"We shouldn't make statues until they're dead." Did we really think this one through? I mean how are dwarves going to make statues of people who are dead? They don't have cameras.

They have memory.

I can see the rationale for not allowing leaders to commission statues unto their own egos, but forbidding the people from making statues, period?

We cannot forbid some dwarf to make a statue of another dwarf and put it somewhere in his room. But I strongly object to building statues of chairmen and directors as a community project while they are still alive. Because just forbidding leaders to commission statues unto their own egos is not enough - sooner than later we will have leader A requesting statues of leader B and leader B requesting statues of whom? Right, of leader A. Doesn't work.

Additional motion. It has been suggested before that the director works a one-year term instead of one-season term, for the sake of continuity. Since that was not yet reflected in the current list of motions, I hereby officially motion this idea.

...There aren't any brook tiles (white/cyan ~/≈) on your map.

Yup. But there is a brook. It was just generated like it was a stream which I think is the effect of a stream being in the same map area. I was quite surprised at first. I mean, you don't frequently see hordes of carps inside a brook. :-)

Conclusion: If it says 'Stream: Poodlewhatevers', all the sourced water in that region will be a stream. If it says 'Brook:Bottomslash', the sourced water will be brook.

I'm surprised. The land generates tile by tile, so I was expecting water to be the same.

Exactly. Which is why I still hope it's just a game bug because honestly I have not the slightest idea what modifications are causing this (among all modifications that I made).

Exploratory mining should be done on the entire map (at least one drill per region, preferably more) - it's my motion so Yes.
The defense of Equalvoice is the honorable duty of every citizen, so every dwarf in the fortress should spend one season per year training in (martial arts and weapon use) - it's my motion so Yes.
Non-player dwarves are not citizens - it's my motion so Yes.
Vountary military service.[Grail][Goron] - Yes.
NO WRESTLERS[Grail] - if it means "no wrestling training" then No.
No wrestlers by profession[Emmanovi] - Yes.
Establish a militia program. Initial 5 dwarves activated but standing down in training - No. I suggested that each dwarf is training only one season per year because this rule will strip us with no more than 25% of total workforce and no more than 2 initial dwarves (most skilled of all) at a time. Activating 5 initial dwarves will slow down our expansion progress to a crawl.
Designate a bookkeeper, at least part time. [Goron] - if I'm continuing as the Director for a year, then No, I don't need a bookkeeper, I'd rather have an extra couple of working hands. We can assign one in early Winter so the next director will have complete accounts by the beginning of his term. If we switch the position of Director, then I'll support the vote of the new Director.
No mandatory training. Citizens must opt in for training[Goron] - No.
Institute an emergency draft option for crowd control purposes.[Goron] - Yes.
Sheriff/Captain of the Guard is an elected position.[Lav] - It was not me who suggested this IIRC, but Yes.
Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held until replaced by a standard motion and vote.[Lav] - Again not me, but Yes.
Sheriff/Captain of the Guard position is held for a term[Grail] - No, for the reasons already outlined by others.
The Sheiff/Captain of the Guard should have some degree of control over military matters and justice (discussion needed)[Lav] - It was my motion so Yes.
Construct a War Room[Goron] - Abstain.
Build a Session Hall. Large enough for the entire population, with podiums for the chair and director[Goron] - Abstain.
Craft instruments to be used in the session hall during the pomp and fanfare of the start and end of sessions[Goron] - Abstain.
Commission statues of each new chair and director[Goron] - No. This reeks of personality cult. I am firmly opposed to building monuments to people who are still very much alive.
Build a Chair's Hall and Director's Hall to be lined with statues of Chairdwarfs and Directors[Goron] - No, for the same reasons. Only statues of those who died should be there. If you want your statue  in the Halls - you know what to do, right?
Complete the perimeter by digging the moat through rock in the north-east and south-west sections.[Lav] - It was my motion so Yes.