Bay 12 Games Forum

Hey there N@W dudes. Just giving you a heads up in another place that we're doin a Play Games with Admins weekend. A N@W DF succession game has already been suggested, and might be a bit of fun. I've got a pretty open schedule and would love to put some time down to play other games with you folks. Hit up the forums and let me know if you've got the time and inclination

Quote from: Sheez on April 16, 2012, 02:25:26 pm

Quote from: Solifuge on March 30, 2012, 04:01:40 pm

Blah?

Blah Blah.

Chalk it up to not being privy to the talk going on behind those fancy admin doors, with a side of "Cyster often comes across as condescending". No hard feelings; I merely wanted to vent some frustration somewhere that it wouldn't have the potential to hurt her feelings.

Sure thing man, and you've got every right to vent about whatever you feel like.

To be honest, we're all pretty thick-skinned folk. And, even more than that, we're the kind of people who take criticism pretty well. If you think somethin' odd's been going down, get in touch with the person and ask or rant or whatevs. If you think I'm a dick, I don't mind you telling me so as long as you can get to the why part of it as well. At least that way, we can have a conversation about what's been going on (whether it be my irritation from work bleeding in, or the famous misunderstandings of the internet, or whatever). I encourage that because we're open to it.

I guess the one thing that I can advise on, and sorta kinda touched on with my previous post, is that it doesn't pay to get attached or invested into your suggestions too much. At least, not right now. I know that it's exciting (I am excited all the time about this), but we're so deep into the planning stages that there are very few concrete things to really rest on yet.

Also, if you don't feel comfortable talking with the other admins, you can let me know your concerns and I'll represent you anonymously. I mean that. I get why approaching someone who has the ability to ban and who enforces rules can be scary and intimidating. We're not the kind of folk to swing those banhammers around willy-nilly, but if that layer of separation makes you feel better I'm happy to provide it.

In seriousness, it's like Cyster has made it her personal mission to seek out every good idea to address the server's problems and shoot them down, while throwing in a passive attack or two on the people who made them. I didn't notice it until I was on the receiving end of this three four times in one week, but sheesh!

I'm pretty sure she's going to drive the server into the ground, if Sheez and Emp don't have the gumption to tell her to stop freaking out about change, and address these problems on their own.

  So, here's the deal dudes. We are currently going through a full revision of our previous plugins. Reworking the whole shebang. During this process, we're going to be realistically assessing what needs to happen to get the base mechanics of the game up and running. This means breaking every constituent mod down to it's component parts, figuring out how best to make it function, fit with everything else, and then work to get it coded, tested, and running. We also want to do this on something resembling a reasonable timeline, so that N@W doesn't sit in development for an overwhelming period of time and lose interest.

  This is applicable to you because there are things that folks that are suggesting that fall, broadly, into two categories:

A) Ideas that, while potentially cool, are not core mechanics that N@W needs. While these are neat and are things we usually hold on to in case we have the time to make them work (we do have a 'crazy BS' section of our planning doc), ultimately, it's better to just say "No, these aren't happening" and then pleasantly surprise someone later than it is to say "Yes, this is going in" and delay the process to make sure that happens.

B) Ideas that look to solve issues we've had throughout the course of Season 1 and 2. These suggestions tend to be somewhat more relevant, and as such get more attention from us. They do have their own issues, however. Usually, the suggestion put forth would mean even -more- work than we're already looking, suggests we lean on someone else's mod, or just simply doesn't fit into our current scheme. This isn't entirely your faults. It's just part of the design process. Inevitably, we're going to know more about how things are currently shaping up than you are. We may also have a better idea of why an idea would mean more work.

And that right there is the real kicker. We can't sit down and always tell you -why- a thing won't work, because that often means tipping our hand as to the other mechanics we're working towards. And being the inquisitive folk you are, you'll dig for those answers. I've watched it happen, where Cyster will announce one thing and then suddenly we're detailing something else that's only tangentially related. And rather than tell you all of our plans and thoughts regarding a feature we're working on, we'll leave it vague because it's still being developed. And people still take those ideas and run with them, usually in the wrong directions. That's a problem, because then those folks start to feel like they've got the inside scoop and then run around spouting all of their incorrect information as fact. I'm sure you've seen it happen, because all of us have been doing our best to shut it down.

That's not the kind of situation we want to deal with. But, at the same time, your input is incredibly valuable. And I love that you are excited and curious about what we're doing, and willing to get involved. There are things that we're considering that have been brought up by you guys, and everything you mention goes under some kind of review. Many of your ideas have caught our own imaginations and are filed under the "Shit we'll look into when we have more time" folder, because goddamn it would be cool to have dual-wielding and mounted combat and other stuff that, while exciting, isn't directly part of our core process. We love those things, and they're all the more valuable because you're also interested in them.

On that note, I'd be interested in finding out where and when you feel like you've been attacked. Most of our criticism has been (in my mind at least) pretty reasonable and constructive. We do take a look at most everything you reference, and talk sometimes pretty extensively about it. You may not always see our discussion on a thing, but it does happen behind those fancy admin doors. And when something doesn't work, or is too much, we let you know with a fairly impressive regularity, especially given the number of ideas, misconceptions, and hearsay we address on a weekly basis.

I mean, can you think of many dev projects that accurately, and frequently, give feedback on the stuff their users suggest? I've got one that I can count (those poor PZ guys), and the amount of grief those guys go through is ridiculous. Even here, toadyone commenting on a post is a fairly odd occurrence when you look at all the suggestions that happen on a daily basis. Part of that is volume, but not all of it is. We've been responding to a significant portion of the ideas that get thrown our way, save where they've already been answered. I think it would be reasonable to expect a few more no's than a community where your ideas don't really get responses. I've figured that getting ignored is significantly worse than getting a no, but if you feel differently that's something I guess I want to know about as well.

I'm sure you've also noticed the weekly polls we've been setting up. Part of this is to make sure that we're heading a direction that concurs with where your heads are at, and part of it is just to get straight feedback on some of the things we're looking at. We do it because your opinions are valuable, and something that we want to make part of N@W. Just, you know..not all of 'em will make it. That's just the nature of the process.

The first quote worries me. I don't particularly think it was meant that way, but it came off sort of like "We want worship numbers to be balanced, so we'll be arbitrarily cramming people into the boxes we want them to be in in order to make that happen."

We do want worship numbers to be balanced. And I am not afraid of throwing people into other nations to make that happen right off the bat. Initially. That's the important thing. There's going to be some give and take, some flow between different gods, that will happen during the game. We're talking about ways to naturally balance some of the issues that'll result from it. Because it sucks when everyone defects to one god and suddenly there's no one to fight, or worse when everyone but your nation does so, and the entire server is out for your blood.

Next two make me kind of sad; instead of building grand temples to all the deities, we'll have to pick just one concept/perk setup and all roll with it. What if we want lava everywhere but don't want to worship Fire? What if we want torches everywhere but still want to worship Night? What if we want to worship Air but like building everything below ground? If our entire nation is devoted to a deity, either we're going to have to cram our building style to suit that deity, or it's going to be kind of strange that half our fortress is on fire but we're still at war with Fire's worshipers.

So, this is one of those situations where someone's taken something and run with it. I dunno quite where you're seeing that they will dictate your style, Owl, but I'd be happy to look over it if you can find a place where that's been stated.

Also, why break theme? Just, you know, a question as to why you might do the other thing.

Rival issue makes me concerned and a bit sad, since our allies and enemies are pretty much going to be preset and immovable. Could be neat, but I hope this isn't just a heavyhanded attempt at making war more likely by forcing everyone to be EnemiesTM from the get-go.

We should work to make war more likely. That was one of the major issues in Season 2, no one went to war. It simply wasn't worth it. Part of what we're doing is incentivizing war, but another fair bit is also giving you someone constant to go to war with, who will also be interested in going to war with you. We're a pvp-oriented server. That's sorta what we do.

I'm..I'll be honest. I was hesitant to pop in here. I don't want you guys to feel like I'm trolling your space or anything. But these are concerns that I think are worth addressing, and ones that I can address. So I'm here, and this is what I got.

Lemme know if you've got any questions. I'll do what I can to get you answers.

Attempted. They have to go up a few ramps, a slope, and then down, but otherwise it's pretty much a clear shot to the food. I have been trying to get teleport.exe to work, but without luck as my googling has shown me that this was found to help on the forum when the dwarves are placed in water.

I've tried installing/running this three times already though, and it's not working the way it ought to, so if you have any other suggestions I am completely open to trying them.

Brew alcohol?

Lots and lots of it?

Personally, I start off with two herbalist/grower/(occupation, either cook or brewer)s, and a carpenter. Oh, and at least 60 tower-cap logs. Then I pick the local flora until I get a goodly number of plants and then brew them. Start a farm plot and grow the seeds from those plants, which gives me more plants growing than I originally picked. Continue on perpetually...

Got my first artifact today, so I suppose this is my most complicated. Even though it's nowhere near some of these other ones. Also, it's thematically appropriate.

Uthartirist Dakon, "The First Rim of Omen", a tin crown

This is a tin crown. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. It is decorated with cave crocodile leather. This object menaces with spikes of tin.

There are two great things about this crown. The first? The dwarf grabbed raw ore and smelted it without the use of a smelter, or fuel of the standard sort? What did he melt it down with, as I did not have a furnace up and running at the time? My guess, pure dwarvish spite. That said, my world is somethingsomethingcomplicated, the Land of Omen, so it seems particularly appropriate.

[ December 12, 2006: Message edited by: Sheez ]

Dude. The elves just came to trade. Normally, I ignore them as the elves are prudish and suck. However, these elves? They brought TAME elephants and hippos! They've got two hippos, so I'm hoping it's a breeding pair. They also brought me sunshine in a barrel. WTF?

I started near a mountain called something appropriate..like..the Hollow-Silver Mountain of Prophecy. I don't know. As soon as I started up, I get a message that my dwarves have discovered the ruins of Kelaskadaranvadak or some such. It's a tower. Two of them actually. And they are taller than my -mountain-! I was so stunned that I didn't notice the fifteen human skeletons bearing down on my poor seven dwarves. I can't wait to see if adjuststart works on this version. Then the towers will be mine!