Bay 12 Games Forum

Well, not the responses I'd hoped for, to be sure, but hey, thanks for the straight answer, at least, Capntastic.

... While I would undoubtably be ecstatic (so ecstatic I wouldn't even stop being ecstatic if an elephant ate my family) with an "anything you can possibly imagine is possible" system... My innate skepticism somehow finds it extremely unlikely that Toady will be able to rawify such a flexible system into the game.  That's no insult to Toady, mind you, but I've been promised the Moon before, and I've learned not to hold my breath.

Reading this and most of the other responses, I think that it was certainly a mistake to have made a post so long that people apparently completely misconstrued what I was arguing for or against, and what I wanted to open discussion on.

Honestly, yes, I was unsure of what, exactly, you were trying to say then, and here as well.

I really can't say I understand what you mean by "Let Magic Be Magic!", or what you mean by "procedural game", nor would I really like to assume I know what you mean with some of those tags, especially considering the supposed flexibility of such a system.

Maybe, but I have problems with such magic.  Dividing magic into "fire" and "water" is bad enough, but "rainbow magic" goes a little too far.  I'd rather divisions along the ways that magic is cast, and along the types of effects that spells have.

Quote from: Nivm

Quote from: NW_Kohaku on March 14, 2010, 03:08:48 pm

I'm saying that rationale and good storywriting can be built out of virtually any system, provided you give people enough time to work with the concepts involved.

I need to object here; you know (your giant posts show you know) that there are many systems out there inconducive to storytelling.

Then object.  Better yet, come up with your own storytelling. I'm just trying to say that I don't care what the backstory on magic is. 

Quote from: Nivm

And such a magic system is very limited and focused. Monster magic should vary based on the sources of that magic and should conceivably include all spells and effects; not just a small pool. The same goes for wizards, in that they should not be limited to spell components or the slot&formula based magic. What if you generate a world in which such ingredients are too few and far between to even bother with? A world where rituals and spirits are the way of magic instead? The system does not account for enough variation or improvisation.

That is exactly opposite what I have been talking about.
Monsters get a small pool per type of monster.  I am saying that blizzard men should have blizzard-related spells, while fire imps have fire or magma-related spells, while leprechauns have illusionary spells.
As for adventurers, I am not advocating that only creature components should work.  Preferably, monster components of very powerful monsters could give you rare, powerful spells that one would want to hold on to until you hit desperate fights, but I would also rather players be able to just buy more regular components, or pick plants, or maybe be able to break down other items into spell components. 
We could have, for example, an invisibility spell that operates off of piece of glass as a component, but which is interrupted whenever you make an attack or stand next to someone, and have shorter duration.  A leprechaun component invisibility spell, however, would allow for fully rummaging through a creature's inventory without being detected.  Alternately, it could be made into a spell that would allow for a charm that makes that target believe you were an ally.  Or maybe you can just use it to summon a pot of gold coins.
It would give players a reason to stop and pick the flowers... then grind them up into a nice paste for a spell.

Quote

Another potential problem for those with a vision for what DF Magic will be is, from an entirely procedural set of interactions, generating a system robust enough to allow magic-enabled megaconstructions such that one might find in high fantasy, such as flying cities kept aloft by crystals, and enchantments blanketing a forest that can only be undone by laying the feather of a chicken on the heart of a wolf - in other words, what might be called 'magical steampunk'.

In other words: I am writing this after not having slept for the entire night. I mean to say that I doubt procedural magic can allow complex interactions that would allow for such common fantasy tropes as 'magical technology' or 'heavily magical flying cities'.

Sorry if I get a little sarcastic, but considering as we already have a game where we can support whole mountains on a single bar of soap, how much more difficult could it be to just make the mountain levitate?