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Messages - Creaca

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121
General Discussion / Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« on: May 17, 2010, 06:14:17 pm »



If you haven't watched Cromartie High yet, I highly suggest it. It's the Gurren Lagann of Comedy.



That's a pretty lofty title.



Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Freddy Mercury is a major character.

122
General Discussion / Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:21:10 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If you haven't watched Cromartie High yet, I highly suggest it. It's the Gurren Lagann of Comedy.


123
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:10:22 pm »
Quote
I've got to side with Aqizzar here. I'm all for free speech, but there are also natural logical consequences you must be ready to suffer. If you're going to roll in fresh chum and then go wade with sharks, don't fucking act outraged when the sharks bite.

I think a not dissimilar analogy is the "protest" movements of the last decade or so in the US, which are a weak, emo imitation of the movements of the '60s. I remember reading some interviews with some college freshman who were wailing that the police had cordoned them off into "free speech zones", and as a result, they hadn't had anything to eat in SIX HOURS! Despite supporting their cause, I felt an incredible urge to slap these silly bints into another time zone. People in Bangkok and Tehran are protesting despite the very real threat of being *killed*, and we've got whiners who feel it's a human rights violation because they didn't get their lunchtime noms.
If you're going to protest against the establishment, don't expect them to make it convenient for you.
If you're going to commit civil disobedience, don't be surprised when you get arrested.
If you're going to gay-bait people that you know are homophobic, don't be surprised when they beat the shit out of you.

I think one thing that maybe is being missed here is that this is not exclusive to conservative Muslims. There are plenty of places in the United States (even on college campuses) where this could have happened with an audience of white males.

I'm not saying that the reaction is a good one, or even that the perpetrators shouldn't be punished for it, but to say that it was totally unexpected is either to be incredibly naive or incredibly disingenuous.

Quote
I think a not dissimilar analogy is the "protest" movements of the last decade or so in the US, which are a weak, emo imitation of the movements of the '60s. I remember reading some interviews with some college freshman who were wailing that the police had cordoned them off into "free speech zones", and as a result, they hadn't had anything to eat in SIX HOURS! Despite supporting their cause, I felt an incredible urge to slap these silly bints into another time zone. People in Bangkok and Tehran are protesting despite the very real threat of being *killed*, and we've got whiners who feel it's a human rights violation because they didn't get their lunchtime noms.
Trust me when I say that Lars is under the very real threat of getting killed, He's had at least five assassination attempts on him, and plenty of death threats. The scuffle outside the university was not one of these, some angry students broke his glasses, he didn't even get a bruise as far as I know.


Quote
I'm not saying that the reaction is a good one, or even that the perpetrators shouldn't be punished for it, but to say that it was totally unexpected is either to be incredibly naive or incredibly disingenuous.
And what I'm saying is that you aren't saying he's wrong because of what he did. You're saying he's stupid because there are people out there who will kill him for what he did.

Like Footkerchief said, by that line of logic a rape victim might have just taken a free drink offered at a bar,but the fact that there are people in the world who will drug that drink then rape and kill her makes her stupid.

Edit: Updated Wrong to Stupid.

124
General Discussion / Re: Atheists
« on: May 17, 2010, 06:11:21 am »
It's a step up from trying to twist the other individual's sentences because it could mean this.
I just thought the word choice was relevant enough to note. I wasn't trying to twist your sentence, just pointing out that there may have been subtext in it.

125
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 06:06:43 am »
Agree to disagree then, I feel that anything less than offensive to everyone in the audience, and it isn't a real lecture on free speech. Reserve has a time and place, and a full demonstration of Free Speech isn't that place.

Also I'm absolutely for action, one of the reasons I'm supporting what Lars did is because the sooner this Can of Worms is busted open the better.

Edit: And Footkerchief makes an excellent point. This guy could sell toilet paper depicting an orgy between Buddha, Shiva, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, and Jehovah. It's still his right by law to do so in his native country. If he dies it sets the very dangerous precedent of terrorist organizations half a world away being able to ignore and invalidate laws and rights of governments.

126
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:49:55 am »
And just to clarify. He was doing a lecture on free speech at Swedish University, the pictures in the video where not his, but done by an Iranian artist named Sooreh Hera. Frankly, if you have a lecture on free speech, and someone isn't offended, you did something wrong, or you didn't fully demonstrate the point.

Again, where the serious problem started is decided to release
Spoiler: this (click to show/hide)
and a few other sketches portraying a dog with Muhammad's head. He was given a bounty and had about 100,000 dollars placed on his head. With a 50,000 dollar bonus if his throat was slit open. He didn't take this sketch to the nearest mosque and wave it in everyones face. It was part of a small art convention in Sweden with the theme "The Dog in Art".

This is a case of religious extremists censoring the world. I guess the point I'm trying to make is even if someone is pushing the buttons of crazy dangerous people out there, intentionally or not. We shouldn't just stand by, these assholes need to be taken care of.

Hate to prove Godwin's Law true, but if the Nazi party was alive and well today, and they threatened terrorist actions against anyone who portrayed the Aryan Race as being equal to or lesser than the other races, would this debate still be so mixed?

127
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:25:49 am »
Right or Wrong, he'll very likely become a martyr, doing more for his message than anything he sketches or plays at a university.




128
General Discussion / Re: Atheists
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:10:18 am »
Also, I can't help but notice how you said 'You can be Sentient, but not human.' In the context of discussing sentient gods, it's very interesting you would word it that way.

Keep trolling, it's a fun past time.

And thus the discussion devolves into throwing the word Troll around.

129
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:06:22 am »

Because nothing bad or violent ever happened during the civil rights movement


Let me reiterate. People did things they knew would be dangerous during the civil rights movement. People got hurt during the civil rights movement. People got killed.

However, people didn't just shrug their shoulders and say 'Pft, those idiots shouldn't have had that peaceful sit-in in that Diner, next time the ones still alive will learn their lesson.' People knew that was crap, so they worked to change things.

130
General Discussion / Re: Atheists
« on: May 17, 2010, 04:06:54 am »
I am always astounded by how poor some people's ability to use logic is.

Being Human and being Sentient is not the same thing.

This does not mean that a Human is not Sentient.

You can be Sentient but not Human.

Sentience and human are the same thing in the same way Egg Layer and Chicken are the same thing.

Something can be an egg layer and not be a chicken, but despite that fact, I don't see how you would fault someone for using the two as synonyms.

Also, I can't help but notice how you said 'You can be Sentient, but not human.' In the context of discussing sentient gods, it's very interesting you would word it that way.


And if sentience involves having an ego, which is more than likely, your point is entirely moot, creaca, as anything we do or believe is to "assuage our egos". So no, having a Creator says nothing about the ego of man.
You misunderstand me Siquo, I don't debate that we're not trying to reinforce our Ego with anything we do or believe. Rather that because of that fact, we are led to believe that some greater version of ourselves was our creator.

131
General Discussion / Re: Atheists
« on: May 17, 2010, 03:49:34 am »
So you wouldn't say Humans are sentient? Well, I certainly can't argue with you on that front.


We see something we can't understand, we also see order and harmony to it. We either assume it's something humanity will eventually understand, and assuage our ego, or we create something superhuman that doesn't want us to understand it, and assuage our ego.

132
General Discussion / Re: Atheists
« on: May 17, 2010, 03:36:29 am »
It says a lot about the ego of man that the universes creation must be the act of a sentient being.

133
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 03:28:20 am »
He was attacked at a Swedish university. It's not like he was going to show the video at a mosque, or something like that, as some of the people here seem to be implying. If you cannot practice freedom of speech at an university in a country with one of the highest development indexes in the world, then where can you do it?

Somewhere other than a university in a country with one of the highest development indexes in the world? Because obviously you can't there.

That's what I'm saying. It is a violation of freedom of speech, yes, and that is bad. How does that change what happened? Are you going to stand in front of an enraged, murderous man and complain that you were allowed to show him something he'd find highly offensive because of freedom of speech and expect him to back down?

It worked during the Civil Rights movement. I'm sure plenty of bigots found the idea of sharing public facilities and services with 'Niggers' offensive.

134
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 03:07:15 am »
The "Solve violence with more violence" strategy eh?

It just feels more proactive then 'Solve Violence with more Ignore The Violence'.
Peace through deterrence always seemed to work before. The threat of overhanging fiery oblivion always instills a bit more caution in someone.
Deterrence seems to work to a degree, but unless Lars Vilks hires a shitload of mercenaries or Sweden gets a lot less neutral I don't see that help him directly. Violence will at least run the Terrorist groups to ground, giving everyone a breather, and hopefully making them 'Once Bitten, Twice Shy'.

135
General Discussion / Re: Lars Vilks and a muslim gay bar
« on: May 17, 2010, 02:44:32 am »
The "Solve violence with more violence" strategy eh?

It just feels more proactive then 'Solve Violence with more Ignore The Violence'.

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