Bay 12 Games Forum

Which, the game or the mod?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_Commander - this page has most of the relevant links. The mod I'm talking about is Kobayashi Maru 1.0, but there seem to be extensive mods about stuff like Battlestar Galactica as well. The game's very graphically pleasing, and controlling a large battle from the bridge (that constantly shakes and has sparks flying every which way when you're under fire) is really great.

Here, look at the damage done to this poor thing:

Spoiler: Warning! Large image. (click to show/hide)

Would it however be possible to add them to the list of things you can bring? And whould these seeds then grow?

If so, how would one do this?

but that's about all I'm aware off since I've haven't been able to start up the economy yet

I have been thinking about some things however:

1.The Economy

Currently the monetary and pre-monetary economy of the fortress is a skinny beast without much influence on the game other than making dwarves miffed. I've been thinking about both the monetary, pre-monetary economies, as well as some related topics like earning money, allowances and trade.
The basic idea is to introduce a new strategy layer to the game: namely balancing your income and your expences. This regardless of your economy-level

1.1. The Pre-Monetary Economy.

Technically there is no pre-monetary economy now and as long as you have a steady foodsupply your can play the game without any problems. As things stand it is even an advantage over having the capitalist-like system in place.

What could be done here is change the early system to a redistributive system (much like what was in place in human society until the advent of coin during the 600s BC). Under such a system the state pays its citizens by giving them food or goods. Seeing as the fortress currently controls all the ways to produce food in large quantities the best option is paying with food.

Thus the food storage becomes the fortress' treasury. Dwarves are payed for their services in food, which they can then spend on acquiring the raw material-stockpiles (woodblocks, rock, raw gems, ore, etc. owned by the state) they need for their workshops, acquiring the processed materials from their fellow dwarves (in order to make finished goods), acquire personal items, acquiring services from other dwarves or just to eat it.

The state can obviously acquire foodstuffs via the farmers it employs. Or via tribute from the village (once added), or via raids. Even via trade.

Every dwarf would of course need a way to store the food he earned.

1.1.1. Private Initiative and the Nobles
----------------------------------------

A dwarf could of course get some raw resources (those found outside the mountain) or foodstuffs if he is willing to go out and get them, and if he has the tools. These would generally be a small part of the overall economy since it is less cost-effective for most dwarves than going via the state and its jobs. Legendary (or nearly so) dwarves of certain professions could of course go out for a quicky and acquire those materials for their own purpose (or even to sell them)

Nobles are a different matter altogether. They have a position to uphold and generally wouldn't appreciate it when not in possession of their own means of wealth-generation. Seeing as this wealth consists of food, the means to generate this wealth is land.

So nobles, depending on their rank, should be owner of a certain amount of farm-tiles (a bit like they require a certain kind of room) on which they employ dwarves to work (so a jeweller dwarf might end up farming if his other job doesn't provide him with enough food).

The food thus generation would go into the noble's own stockpile and be used for whatever the noble wants: paying his employees, patronising workshops for goods he needs, trading with the caravan on his own (as has been proposed by others). And also to pay a tax towards the fortress of course.

Should the player be unwilling or unable to present the nobles with their own land he can provide them ith allowances: a certain amount of food (or money) that can be used by the nobles as they see fit.

1.1.2. Trade.
-------------

I don't see a reason to change the way trade with caravans should be conducted under this economy.

Of course private citizens and nobles should be able to trade individually with the caravans (but this has already been proposed by others, and has been taken as an idea by the development team iirc)

One thing though, and that goes for the whole economy: it should be possible to trade for raw or processed metals/gems. They should be expensive but it would allow maps without many resources (more difficult!)

1.1.3. Setting Prices.
----------------------

Setting prices would be important here as there's a fine balance between allowing your dwarves to live and barter for things or allowing them to just survive.

A certain amount of food should be earned by basic actions like farming/mining/cutting wood (which could be considered equal). With lower jobs earning less and better jobs earning more.

A minimum amount of food should be given to dwarves with no job (since no ruler wants to have food-revolts on his hands. See France 1789, or Ancient Rome as prime examples). This wouldn't prevent these dwarves from beeing stupid of course (an AI job basically: random chance that the dwarve in question will spend his food rather than survive on it). Said dwarf should then present something of a problem.

that certain amount of food could also be linked to a certain amount of coin (which would basically make it possible to convert the entire pricelist when going to a monetary economy).

1.2. The Monetary Economy.

The monetary Economy is kickstarted when the player mints 2500 coin or somesuch (iirc). Maybe this should be changed to 100$ for each regular dwarf + 500$ for each noble present in the fortress (these are example amounts).

The new economy should somewhat drastically change your economy, but not too much since you're not going through an Industrial Revolution. The advent of coinage, while important, wasn't that drastic.

Whereas your fortress' main focus was food it should now expand this focus to monetary issues like minting enough coin and a basic form of inflation.

1.2.1. The Treasury.
--------------------

Now that the player has a "real" economy he should now be presented with the treasury. A rudimentary treasury would have been available in the previous phase of the game, detailing the amount of food present, earned over the year and how much expended on the dwarves.

From now on the treasury will show the amount of money in the treasury, the amount expended on wages, the amount expended via trade, the amount earned via taxes/trade, the amount of money minted, inflation when you mint A LOT (see 16th century Spain, or again Ancient Rome), the amount of taxes owed to the Crown (should a kingdom level be introduced) or to you (if you are the Crown), etc.

The treasury-screen could also show the amount of money you need to mint each year (season might be better) to provide your economy with sufficient liquidity. This could basically be what the bookkeeper's mandate now.

Having insufficient money might result in dwarves returning to a foodbased economy, resulting in a mixed economy. (This should be possible due to 1.1.3.). Should such a thing happen traders might not be as willing to trade their high-lvl stuff to you since it appears to them that your economy can't support it.

1.2.2. Dwarves Earning Money.
-----------------------------

Earning money would be more or less the same as in the previous phase of the game. Whereas food was then earned, your dwarves would now earn money.

Your nobles would earn money by selling the food they grow. Or potentially by ordering their employees to make certain goods and them selling them (depends on wether such a thing makes it into the game).

1.2.3. Treasury Expenses.
-------------------------

The treasury would encure expenses by ordering things made or done: like a room mined, a field planted, an item made, an army or campaign, etc.

1.2.4. Treasury Income.
-----------------------

The treasure would accrue income via various means: minting money, receiving taxes, recieving rent, receiving pay for good you had made, loot from military campaigns, money from vassals (like that village), etc.

1.2.5. Trade.
-------------

The monetary economy should allow the player to pay for his goods by using coin, and coin alone. It should also allow the player to sell his goods for coin.

In most cases, where there's a transaction going on in both directions, this won't change much but it would enable the player to fatten his treasury by selling things for money.

It should still be possible to trade for raw ore/gems of course.

Another effect of the new economy could be that the traders are more willing to sell you the really expensive stuff (like superior weapons, luxury items..) seeing as they can make a tidy profit in gold/silver.

--------------------

This is all for now. I seem to have lost my train of thought with the last few interruption  . Maybe i'll remember more tomorrow.

[ January 22, 2007: Message edited by: Crazy_Ivan80 ]

[ January 22, 2007: Message edited by: Crazy_Ivan80 ]

[ January 22, 2007: Message edited by: Crazy_Ivan80 ]

[ January 22, 2007: Message edited by: Crazy_Ivan80 ]

[ January 22, 2007: Message edited by: Crazy_Ivan80 ]

Maybe a Forester* workshop too? From there the forester leads the forestry effort, speeding up the spread (i.e. planting) of saplings above and/or underground (area to be tended could be designated in the same way you tell the dwarfs where to dig)
*Forestry was an important job during the pre-industrial times (which is the general technology setting of dwarf fortress) with nobles or wealthy traders investing in land and trees for the continuous return they brought after ca 20 years
(for example: Nelson's Forest in the UK where oaks were grown to supply high quality timber for the Royal Navy)