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Messages - Data

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61
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 04:00:24 pm »
Especially the point where I suggested customizable text appearance by type. This is a feature the goons don't have, and won't have unless they steal it.

Tbh I don't see the need for such a feature. The text is fine as it is, and it mimics the text seen in your version of Bay12. The only difference is that my OOC font still shows the [A]/[D] indicators for who is an admin, and that's a feature I'd very much like to keep.

Furthermore, it is already possible to completely focus on IC by switching to the IC tab that shows everything you do in the game, but not things like OOC. Note that the OOC channel will still display private messages of admins, so nobody can say that they weren't able to read it.

The best way to get ahead of the goons is by focusing on things that already exist and improving them. SS13 is regarded as a good example of "feature creep", whereby one feature is stacked upon another. This is why I'm focusing a lot on the HUD, moving old verbs like pull to grab, making an admin panel, etc.

Unfortunately most of the changes I make are internal. Some changes are made to existing features - some which people don't like - but people don't notice that I'm making things much cleaner on the inside.

I'm basically SS13's janitor.

62
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 03:55:46 pm »
There does seem to be a problem with Nameless2. I cannot say much in terms of direct contact, but there have been numerous complaints calling for his removal. At worst, he is abusing his power, at best he needs to earn his trust with the other admins and regular players.

I will accept a majority vote from administrators to remove Nameless. Originally Johbson was meant to do this kind of thing but he's given up all hope for some reason, despite my willingness to adapt.

Giving yourself the slightest advantage in a game is looked down upon. People already have a sense of goal on any game mode, even in extended (Do regular work counts as a goal, and people shouldn't have to expect more from that).

I see my goal in the game as an entertainer; I only gain fun myself if others around me have fun. This weird scenario means that I'm effectively unable to cause much grief, as I don't like ruining the game for someone else.

I'm still trying to learn to which things I should and which things I shouldn't adapt. At the very least you should know that any behavior from me in the game will not mess things up too much. In special modes, I always leave control to the admin who held the mode without trying to divert attention to my character, but in generic modes where it starts to get boring I might actually do this just to spruce things up a bit.

At least when I do this in a generic mode, you'll know that the bad guy is controllable, and not prone to going on killing sprees or anything, so it's one less issue for moderators to handle.

Serious role-playing means the captain doesn't abuse his power, and a mutiny against the captain is well within roleplay if the captain acts unreasonable.

If the captain acts unreasonable and handcuffs my character to a chair, my game will effectively be ruined. The captain will of have griefed me. Even if I'm detained by security for vandalism and jailed, it still counts as grief in my book. However some grief is tolerated for the good of the many.

The key I have found to good role-playing in SS13 is respect. I always respect my fellow man, even if they do not respect me. Put me in a round with Johbson or even Rathen and I'll still act accordingly, not killing them despite what they may be blabbing over OOC.

Fostering a role-playing environment is done at all levels, from administration to the common player. That means that OOC stays OOC, admins do not use their abilities to give themselves an advantage (no matter how small), people do not run around toolboxing others at the slightest provocation, etc. We do not expect administration from you, we just expect that everyone is put on the same level for most of the time.

Except administrators are not on the same level as players. Indeed, an administrator is capable of hosting modes and making sure that custom modes are prepared. I think that sometimes it is good to have an administrator as a storyteller. I tend to automatically perform this role when rounds get too boring.

This much works with us. I thank you for the work that you have given us, and I don't doubt that you can help us improve our server.

Let me get one thing off the bat right away: I haven't given you anything. It's Nameless who gave the source to you guys because he wanted to abuse the crap out of you guys. I believe the only reason Nameless gave you guys the source in the first place is so he'd have a free "get out of trouble" free card plus full admin/developer access on the server.

My invitation to work together extends this far, but if you guys do not choose to work together I'd prefer if my work wasn't re-used.

I think we do have some relaxed rounds, and we certainly enjoy them from time to time.

Exactly. Of course, you have your strict rounds as well. I respect those rounds, and I do see the need at times for being strict, but you shouldn't be too strict. I've seen far too many RP servers (outside of BYOND though) that have messed up in this way.

I think your problem lies in your public relations though, it is not that we see anything wrong in your behaviour, but that you go ahead and do stuff before making sure that the rest of us know for sure what you are up to. The problem isn't that you don't tell us, but that you don't make sure we get it.

If there are questions about my behavior after I use adminsay to tell you guys what I'm doing, or if you want to ask a question on what I'm doing right now, you can always give me a message. I'm open to any questions you guys may have.

The thing is that I feel that the only way for us to be able to work together is to actually work together as equals. You shouldn't have the feeling that I'm hogging everything and trying to take control, but I shouldn't have the feeling that I have to report to you guys as if I'm some kind of code monkey who still needs toilet training.

63
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 02:33:46 pm »
Do not take an antagonistic view to try to get us on your server, we prefer a certain play style and we value it more than we value features. The problem here isn't so much a problem of our code being mediocre, but that the serious role-play you seem to dislike is what drives us to this game, and better features wont make us turn our back at roleplaying and admin-player trust.

Hah. I have nothing against your so-called "serious role-play" apart from the fear that you might take things too seriously. The admins on the server are the same admins that Johbson appointed on his, and I have added no-one at all except for maybe Nameless2.

Coding for us is not a free pass to cause mayham. We want everyone to be able to enjoy themselves equally while on the server, regardless of whether they just dropped in, played with us from day one, admined for us or built the code itself.

Define "cause mayhem". I'm not causing mayhem on the server. Heck, I'm not even playing at the moment. But when I am playing, I'm role-playing all the way. It's just that I might give myself an advantage over other players. This is not only to prevent the game from ending very quickly for me, but it's also to give people some sense of goal.

From what I've seen, "serious role-playing" also involves sitting idly by while the captain handcuffs you to a chair. Such actions are only going to cause people to get mad, because they at least want to have some company around to remain role-playing.

If you want people from bay12 to join and enjoy themselves on your server, then you need to keep your audience in mind. We like our super serious roleplaying, and do not see anything wrong with it. When you foster a role-playing environment, we will join again. I don't think there will be any objections to that statement.

I can't foster a role-playing environment because I don't see it as my job to do so. I'm not one of the server administrators; I'm a developer trying to do his job. If you have been having problems with people not role-playing properly, then it's because of poor administration of the server. Administration which I have not appointed myself nor directly control myself.

My wish is to work together with you guys to try to make SS13 better. If you want to play a serious role-playing round or two, or even all day, then I have no objection to this. As advice I will ask you to keep in mind that there may be times when modes like "combat" are nice to host since it allows others to blow off some steam, but I'm not going to enforce anything. All I do is code, brag about the stuff I code, and occasionally play(test) a bit.

I await your response.

64
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 01:06:19 pm »
Well, the server is up @ byond://ss13.net:8006
If you want your own private server, just give a call and I'll set it up. You can page me on BYOND @ Android Data.

65
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 10:41:12 am »
Also what's wrong with just roleplaying? Maybe the bay12 people don't want loads of features.

I'm more about fixing what's already there and making the game much better. Then figuring out what to add to it.

66
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 10:38:24 am »
Data I think as long as the goons have some kind of hatred atracted towards them we WILL have traffic. I doubt the goons even care about our server being up :/.

I know the goons don't care, but the goons are bound to change eventually, enough that a lot of you may be persuaded to go there. Whomever is left will be, well, sitting. I'm trying to prevent this somewhat by using my abilities in your favor.

67
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 10:24:02 am »
In my opinion you guys need to stop being overwhelmed by Data's ability to post completely irrelevant words.

Blah blah blah. Blah, blah blah. Blah! Blah blah? Well BLAH!

I think most of you just can't be bothered reading it all and assume he's right.

Johbson certainly doesn't! It does pay to read my messages once in a while though, since you might actually learn something: that I am right, for instance.

All Data is ever gonna do is try and leech as much power as possible.

Nope, I'm not about leeching power all that much. I am however not going to work for someone when I'm doing volunteer work. It's one of my principles. Why should I have to listen someone who is "superior" to me, especially when all they do is host the game every so often?

That's why He and AZA didn't get along, because both of them were power-hungry.

Actually, AZA was power-hungry and I wasn't. AZA was the one who went on and on about how the "official" SS13 project is his project and not mine, and therefore I would need to do whatever he said.

I was the one who said "we all need to work together, without some kind of leader-type person".

Just go back to how it was and exclude Data.

And then what? Even if, just for the sake of argument, the crash bug gets fixed. What's Bay12 going to do? Sure, you guys want to role-play, but I see a grim future for you lot if all you're going to do is sit around trying to keep things your way.

Goon Station is always improving itself, and eventually they're going to be bigger than you lot. I'm here willing to help stave that off a little, and people like you do is yell at me because someone told you that I'm stupid.

68
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 09:07:34 am »
mainly cansiters not working.

They work fine for me. They were broken a couple of versions ago but I fixed that. Did you check recently?

probable problem is intent ( it seem to be all buggy after he changed "pull"), but i just had to break one to release plasma in the engine. the panel just wouldn't open when i clicked on it.

Don't use the grab intent; switch to one of the other intents or you'll grab the canister instead of pulling it. Eventually I'm going to make it so when you grab it'll switch back to your earlier intent. For now just use the pull verb instead of the grab intent.

69
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 08:25:51 am »
Data, are you still going to host for Quake today?

I do plan on doing so, but I don't know which version he likes the most. I'm going to start off by hosting my version though unless otherwise stated.

Note that I will host a separate server, where Quake is an administrator. I don't know if he's looking to administrate anything, but at least he might find a "guided tour of Data's admin panel" an awesome thing to see on his birthday.

Why one would spend their birthday on SS13 though, I can't imagine. ::)
(Okay, I would spend mine on SS13. But I'm me. I don't understand why a normal human would. :P)

If yes, i think he asked our old code. do you have it? ( or maybe he now prefers your, not sure).

I have it. I don't know if it's stable though.

I will still come and look often, so if you think you have a free card to ruin the game for others(assuming there are other people), you have no luck.

You should really get off of the broom, andrea. I have no intention to mess about on Quake's birthday server, and if I mess about on the main server it'll just mean more buddies for Quake to party with. :P

70
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 08:22:24 am »
One question just bothers me, Why are we adding features from BS12 -> SS13

Cause' the BS12 source is messy, and because I like to work with what I have already. And frankly SS13DL has MUCH more than Bay12 has.

Data's version:
- Superpowers
- Few items

Superpowers, TARDIS, some items, sure. But you don't know what's on the inside: a clean code-base which makes it MUCH easier to develop in. The only reason these bugs pop up is because I haven't finished everything yet.

EDIT: Also you forgot "3D sounds". You can actually hear from which direction a door is being opened, etc.

BS12:

Let's go over them one by one.

- Redesigned engine

This is a mapping change. It does not qualify as a proper change since it's WAY too easy to replicate in SS13DL (just change the map, dummy!).

- Toxins separated from rest of the station

This can also be replicated on SS13DL.

- Beards

All I need is the icons and I can add beards in no-time.

- IMO better OOC, Radio and such texts.

The text in SS13DL is better since it blends together. Also the chat is separated into tabs, so those that wish to focus solely on ingame can completely ignore OOC (and admins can even ignore admin messages).

- Nicer space background (Why would it be moving at a bit fast speed if it's a station?)

The space background doesn't matter; although it uses a lot of frames it doesn't actually cause any lag unless you have a really old machine and you're running in Software mode instead of using the hardware to draw the background. The space background doesn't cause any lag; that's superstition.

- Few jobs like Firefighter, Toxins officer and Head of Maintanence

Jobs are easily added in SS13DL. Again, this is only a mapping change and a new job reference in the code.

- A bit easier to use sandbox (No permissions need to be given)

The reason my sandbox is like that is because I made changes some time ago. If sandbox is still a mode which others wish to play, I'll gladly unlock the mode, and I'll even include my own sandbox panel in it as an added bonus. (Seriously my panel rocked.)

Anyway, I would like to have this flaming discussion have a quick short end, as short as the time it takes for a goblin to fall from a 14 level tower to the spikes below... and then get flooded with magma.

This is not a discussion that can simply "end"; this is an actual issue. Running away from me isn't going to solve the issue at hand, since there are some people that do like the changes.

Also, just to piss you off, I'm going to change my version a bit so your "SS13DL vs. BS12" rebuttal becomes moot. ::)

71
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 08:15:29 am »
Maybe I missed one, so feel free to correct me.

4. Pressure Johbson into rejoining me with this merger thing again.

And we should get a clear method of making decisions for the entire version, preferably without a actual leader. (Democracy anyone?)

Democracy is BS. All you need is one thing: respect. The developers and Powers That Be at present (Johbson, possibly Nameless) need to be equal to each other, and one is not supposed to supercede the other. If one breaks off from the rest, it should be viewed as bad instead of good.

72
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 01:45:01 am »
Data, Johbson is not our leader. Stop insulting him. He is a host for the servers, and he keeps track of various builds and suggestions and what not.

If he's a host, then I don't see how he should have the ability to yell "Data, this is no longer the Bay12 official server", pack his bags, and leave. I'm willing to talk things out like a responsible adult, but all he wants to do is go back to the old version because I did something wrong once.

As for admins, I'm willing to admin your server, when I am available, but you just can't do things on it without telling your admins.

Which is why the last time I went in as Sylar, I actually used adminsay to inform the admins that I was going in. See? I am capable of adapting. But Johbson isn't willing to adapt to me; all he talks about is wanting a perfect server. Except a perfect BYOND world is just like the imperfect real world: you can't change it that much.

You've already got your admins, your motd, and pretty much all of your settings. There are only two issues: me and Nameless. We both suddenly popped up in the midst of that. I was running about as Gabriel Gray although trying to restrain myself, and Nameless was, well, Nameless.

You may want to take note that there has been one complaint toward me about joining as Gabriel. No other complaint was made, because I started watching my every move after that and didn't grief or kill anyone. Although I did kill Johbson once. Is that the thing pissing him off? I thought he would be able to handle it.

Unless there were indications to the contrary, I assume all rounds are serious, in the sense that admins don't give themselves what they want, and griefing by anyone gets dealt with.

Despite every time I joined in as Sylar, I always maintained proper RP as not to break the illusion for others. I also made sure I didn't overuse my powers, and I made damn well sure that if I was going to kill someone for their powers to get attention to my character that I'd picked someone who could handle it emotionally (i.e. not raging over OOC afterward) and I prefer picking targets I can revive afterward without weird looks.

You would make an excellent addition to the team. Note I said addition. We have at least one coder of our own, and maybe instead of just doing things, you should talk a bit about them.

Maybe instead of having some kind of leader-type person called Johbson, we should've worked together. As I said to Johbson, I don't see the reason working for someone when I'm doing volunteer work. My work is for SS13; not for Johbson and may not even for Bay12, although I do get a positive feeling when you guys like my work and Bay12 certainly is bigger than the SS13 community.

You, Johbson, need to stop going crazy. You do not speak for all of us.

In that case, I'm putting my server back up and I'll just see what happens then. byond://ss13.net:8006 of course.

However, this is a team effort, and while you are team captain, we still have a say.

He's "team captain"? I never envisioned this. I saw Johbson as a guy I was working together with, not ruling over some team. This is exactly the same problem that happened between me and AZA a while ago: he wanted to hog the project for himself and we were just his slaves. Which is why I left.

Everyone else, I apologize for any problems that have occurred in the past few days. New arrivals always rock the boat a bit, and the old guard doesn't always want to make room for them. Hopefully we will figure this out and move on together.

Apparently Johbson can't. I already told him that the whole "I code in exchange for my ability to mess about" was a figure of speech of sort (in reality I code because I wanna see people like my features, but that's too lame and doesn't give me much leeway or benefits, nor does it explain why I should be allowed to mess about moreso than others :() and I told him to sleep over it.

Except the next day he was just as fierce as ever, claiming how it would never work out. Well, that's perhaps between me and Johbson, but I think it may work out with the rest of the Bay12 community, provided they're not all about having a "perfect server" all the time (plus: how is Johbson's server perfect? What standards do you have to meet? :P).

Yes, I occasionally mess about and give myself some kind of edge above others. Yes, qwerty has already claimed that he does the same sometimes. Yes, I use the knowledge I gain to improve the game even more (i.e. if an interface stinks I improve it, if I find a bug I fix it, if people yell at me I tone stuff down, ...). No, I don't understand why Johbson has everything against me but nothing against qwerty if he does the same thing. If the only thing in the way is the whole "please inform other admins" thing then that's not even an issue since I already do that!

73
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 16, 2009, 01:24:40 am »
I do. Its like moving from a city to a village. So much calmer, and stuff actually gets done.  ;D

Okay, that just insults me. I can't just go and implement every little change you guys want. I had already changed the OOC text and the headset text,  To put it in your own words:

Easier said then done.


I'd also like to add, for the lulz, that the "console spam" you've been getting has already been fixed by me in my version. Except I didn't tell anyone, because I didn't think anybody would be interested.

74
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 15, 2009, 05:54:16 pm »
Even I often "abuse" admin features(though never/rarely in a deadly-to-others way, and usually near the end of a round).

I never abused powers in a "deadly-to-others way", it's just Johbson overreacting because he can't handle not being in control. I wonder if I should split off from that guy and start my own version up again so you Bay12ers at least have something worthwhile to play once in awhile apart from Johbson's super serious RP.

75
Other Games / Re: Space Station 13 *READ RULES ON FIRST POST*
« on: October 15, 2009, 04:53:00 pm »
The people on the server seem to have had a different opinion then you, Data.

I didn't hear anyone complain except you and Nameless. And quite frankly the only other complaints I heard were about the changes I made to pulling.

You really don't have to insult me you know.

Yeah, I do, because you've deliberately wasted my time with your Bay12 crap. To quote yourself:

Quote
A perfect server is the only one I find good enough for the community, and even a slight flaw has to be removed.

Well I'm sorry my server isn't perfect, Uncle Adolph, but you're not going to make much progress if you're going to stick to your crappy routine.

It's not as if your server is so perfect either. It's all a matter of opinion, but apparently yours is the only one you're going to open your mind to.

So yeah, I do have a perfect reason to insult your crappy take on teamwork. If you don't like it, you can pay me some money as payment for my services and the time you wasted to be more specific. Until then, I simply won't think much of you.

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