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Messages - Shinziril

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346
If you closely examine the decorated armor or helmets human soldiers in fortresses spawn with, you'll notice that the decoration is almost invariably a rendition of their civilization's symbol in a random material.  Admittedly, it's often something random like a barrel or a plump helmet or whatever, but it's still kind of neat. 

347
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: Abilty to outfit our Companions?
« on: November 25, 2010, 12:08:15 pm »
Wait, are you sure she isn't getting those from the same source that causes retired adventurers to gain trophies of every kill they've ever made?  The massive amount of jewelry in particular is making me suspicious. 

348
General Discussion / Re: Gunnerkrigg Court-Oh boy.
« on: November 24, 2010, 06:18:12 pm »
Renard really shouldn't have insulted her father; now she's discovered how much fun crushing someone's soul is. 

I have to say, that is a truly impressive expression of malicious glee she's got going in panel 4 there.  Paraphrasing Renard's comment about Diego back at him, too.  Ouch. 

Another fun point: Surma pretending to love Renard was to keep him under control so he wouldn't become a threat to the court.  Given that Antimony currently has total authority over Renard's actions (due to literally owning him), that control will be maintained even with the pretense broken. 

349
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 24, 2010, 02:17:00 am »
Steel is still the best you can reasonably get.  Material doesn't really matter much for blunt weapons, but don't make them out of anything light (like adamantine).  Adamantine is still king for armor and edged weapons.  Iron and bronze are about the same as each other (and below steel), copper is worse, and silver is the worst (except, of course, for the previously-mentioned blunt weapons, where it's at least acceptable). 

350
DF Adventure Mode Discussion / Re: What's the best weapon to use?
« on: November 22, 2010, 09:20:59 pm »
Crossposting my weapon research thread here. 

351
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 21, 2010, 08:13:57 pm »
I did a little preliminary work with humans versus hydras.  My standard experimental setting is a nasty place for the AI-controlled humans- they're got nowhere to run, and the hydra is a lot bigger than they are, so they spend nearly the entire fight on the ground due to getting charged and knocked over.  I had to give the humans full iron armor, an iron battle axe and shield, and GM Fighter/Axeman/Shield User/Armor User/Dodger before even 40ish out of the 100 humans survived. 

Nearly 100% of the survivors were missing one or more legs or feet.  I suspect this may be because losing the ability to stand caused them to focus on fighting the hydra while on the ground, rather than wasting time repeatedly standing up and getting knocked back down again.  The AI clearly does not know how to handle itself in these conditions; perhaps I should do some "personal" arena mode testing with one human-controlled adventurer at a time, counting the number of attacks it takes to down the hydra each time or some such. 

Also, at least one hydra I looked at had already had wounds scar over within the few days of fighting.  These guys heal fast. 

EDIT: Did some one-on-one human-controlled combat, starting with an axeman.  Going straight for decapitations isn't the best strategy; hydras are too large even for greataxes to score an instant kill.  Instead, cripple at least two of their feet (so they fall over, giving them loads of combat penalties) and then go to town lumberjack-style on a given head or neck.  It'll take a while, but it will come off.  Once it does, dance around outside of attack range until the bleeding stops, then start in on the next neck.  It should bleed to death within fairly short order. 

Still haven't tested anything but axes.  Going to try spears next. 

DOUBLE EDIT: Spears are winrar.  Strategy is to go for the upper and lower body as opportunities appear; lower body gets gut shots to make then nauseous and slow, upper body heart shots or ruining both lungs gets you kills.  Both also sometimes get spine shots, which never hurt.  High-skill (GM in useful things) armored spearman managed to take out five hydras in a row this way before the sixth got lucky and ripped his spear arm off at the elbow.

This leaves us with a use for all three of the weapon types: blunt weapons for armored combat, broad edged weapons for human-sized or similar unarmored combat (with any armor weaker than your axe not counting as armor), and spears for enormous unarmored targets like the various animal-style megabeasts, plus giants and similar. 

352
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 21, 2010, 01:53:41 pm »
Scourges are a better match for urumi, to be honest, given that they are edged attacks.  Whips are some sort of tiny, supersonic hammer, like a lump of metal at the end of a long string swung with great force. 

Stats already seem to be standardized in the arena; at least, every human I looked at had "Average" for every stat, and even if there is slight variation within that, I doubt it would have much more of an effect than random lucky shots already do. 

GM Shield User/Misc. Object User w/ 1 shield vs GM Shield User/Misc. Object User w/ 2 shields:
25 group 1 survivors
75 group 2 survivors

Note that the soldiers wielding two shields had one in each hand, rather than abusing the multiple-weapons-in-one-hand bug. 

353
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 19, 2010, 01:53:29 pm »
Another note: Wrestling is near useless when operated by the AI, as it tends to grab random body parts and release them (although if you grab the right body part it'll go for joint locks and suchlike).  Operated by a human player, wrestling is vastly more powerful; since the AI cannot currently pick up weapons from the ground, wrestling someone's weapon away from them renders them nearly harmless (although not entirely- watch out for them punching you in the finger, breaking it and causing you to pass out from the pain and get your skull caved in).  The combination of high Wrestling skill and Ambusher is even more deadly; if you can get next to someone without them spotting you, you can choke their throat and knock them unconscious in seconds, often without being spotted.  They can then be summarily dispatched with a convenient weapon.  I call this the "Solid Snake" style of adventurer mode combat.  The fact that wrestling trains insanely fast doesn't hurt, either. 

354
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 19, 2010, 11:13:32 am »
Peasant w/ full iron armor and steel war hammer vs peasant w/ full iron armor and platinum war hammer (test ran twice):
69 group 1 survivors
131 group 2 survivors

Density definitely has an effect, but it's not huge (platinum is something like twice the density of silver and only made the hammers slightly better).  Also, slade now seems to be unavailable in the testing arena, although I suppose I could just mod something to have similar stats. 

Peasant w/ iron scourge vs peasant w/ iron battleaxe (test ran twice):
106 group 1 survivors
94 group 2 survivors

Scourges are about even with battle axes for unarmored combat, but if you give them armor scourges will penetrate while battle axes won't, resulting in a 100% victory for the scourges.  Note that scourges are edged weapons, so they're like knife-flails or something (and they're made out of metal, not leather, resulting in many flying body parts). 

Peasant w/ full iron armor and iron scourge vs peasant w/ full iron armor and iron whip:
33 group 1 survivors
67 group 2 survivors

Whips are blunt weapons, so they're better for armored combat than scourges.  They can't sever, but they are very, very good at chipping bones, which tends to cause extreme pain and thus allows for instant kills when enemies pass out from the pain. 

Peasant w/ iron scourge vs peasant w/ iron whip (test ran twice):
111 group 1 survivors
89 group 2 survivors

This follows the general rule that edged > blunt for unarmored combat, and blunt > edged for armored combat. 

355
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 18, 2010, 11:55:39 pm »
Unarmored peasant w/ steel war hammer vs unarmored peasant w/ silver war hammer (test ran twice to reduce data scatter):
98 group 1 survivors
102 group 2 survivors

I'd say they're pretty even for unarmored combat. 

Full iron armor peasant w/ steel war hammer vs full iron armor peasant w/ silver war hammer (test ran twice):
83 group 1 survivors
117 group 2 survivors

Silver seems slightly better against armor.  Sigh.  At least it's not a huge advantage; blunt weapons are nasty against armor no matter what you make them out of, really, as long as it's not really light (like wood or adamantine or something). 

356
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 18, 2010, 01:16:08 pm »
EDIT: Crap, quoted instead of editing post.

357
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 18, 2010, 01:14:49 pm »
GM Fighter/Axeman/Dodger w/ iron battle axe vs GM Fighter/Striker/Kicker/Dodger/Professional Axeman w/ iron battle axe:
78 group 1 survivors
20 group 2 survivors (total does not add to 100 due to a few mutual kills)

I suspect that if unarmed combat skills are higher than weapon skills the AI might default to using unarmed attacks, which aren't really that great against someone who can bisect you in an instant.

GM Fighter/Axeman w/ iron battle axe vs GM Fighter/Professional Axeman w/ iron battle axe:
84 group 1 survivors
14 group 2 survivors

GM Fighter/Axeman w/ iron battle axe vs GM Fighter/Dodger/Professional Axeman w/ iron battle axe:
67 group 1 survivors
40 group 2 survivors

A lower skilled weapon user with high Dodging skill is less overmatched than one without, but still at a disadvantage against a true master. 

GM Fighter/Axeman w/ iron battle axe vs GM Fighter/Dodger/Shield User/Axeman w/ iron battle axe:
28 group 1 survivors
69 group 2 survivors

Note that this shows that a highly skilled weapon user is a deadly threat, as even faced with strictly superior enemies with both GM Dodging and Shield User, the GM Fighter/Axeman still prevailed 30% of the time.  Perhaps I should use slightly lower skill enemies as my testing standard to more accurately replicate combat in Adventure Mode (against, say, elite enemies like warlords or chieftains).  What skill level do you think is reasonable?  I've been using "Professional" in the tests in this post, which is skill level 9.

358
DF General Discussion / Re: 31.18 Weapon Research
« on: November 18, 2010, 12:17:29 pm »
The macro isn't anything special really.  I just started at the create creature screen, hit ctrl+r to start recording, then hit enter to create the first soldier, move the cursor to the next cell, hit c+enter to create the next soldier, etc.  It took less than five minutes to finish recording that, and it has been very helpful.  A similar macro to give a soldier a full set of iron armor instantly is also useful.  Counting of win/loss ratios is done by examining the units screen to see which soldiers are still alive afterwards.

For unarmored unskilled combatants, picks and battle axes seem about even.  Iron picks can get through iron armor, but it is difficult and mostly breaks bones.  Given that battle axes can't get through armor of the same tier at all, this is a slight advantage to picks, but an actual blunt weapon would be much more effective for anti-armor capabilities.  High skill miners would still make a decent "reserve force", but try to have actual soldiers do the fighting if possible.  Also, steel picks. 

Another tidbit: the AI always goes for headshots if an enemy is unconscious, so if the target is wearing a helmet that the attacker's weapon cannot penetrate, this can cause the AI to flail uselessly despite the enemy being totally helpless.  Great for training weapon skill, though. 

359
DF General Discussion / 31.18 Combat Research
« on: November 18, 2010, 01:04:43 am »

I've been doing some tests in Arena Mode on weapons in the most recent version.  The test methodology I use is a slightly modded arena with 100 2x1 walled cells, with a macro that allows me to copy a given warrior into each cell. 

Here are some of the more general conclusions I have come to:

Spoiler: Skills (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Weapons and Armor (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: Miscellaneous (click to show/hide)

360
General Discussion / Re: MSPA: THE INTERNET CAN'T HANDLE ME
« on: November 16, 2010, 09:54:40 am »
Not enough JPEG artifacts.  It's close, though.

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