10201
Other Games / Re: Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead
« on: April 18, 2013, 01:12:54 pm »
Hahaha, that made my day.
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10202
Mafia / Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 2
« on: April 18, 2013, 01:11:45 pm »
Well, here's my votes again:
Light Solifuge's white, snuff Dariush's white
Also, for whomever is compiling the spreadsheet: I have no abilities. I've received no additional posts since my role post and my role post just said I was close to Telmorin.
Light Solifuge's white, snuff Dariush's white
Also, for whomever is compiling the spreadsheet: I have no abilities. I've received no additional posts since my role post and my role post just said I was close to Telmorin.
10203
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 18, 2013, 11:04:48 am »
There's a lot of questions to get to, but I can answer this one quickly:
Toaster
Toaster
If you knew Ranger was lying about knowing your ability names, why didn't you call him out?He'd already explained that he might have been given bogus names by Wuba, and because the name 'Cupid's Arrows' was very close to what the actual ability is called, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that point- especially as his information on the role (until he slipped up) was all correct. I've got three abilities, so that much was true.
Also, call it rolefishing all you want, but how many abilities do you have? If it's not three, why not call him out about knowing that too?
10204
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 18, 2013, 08:13:30 am »
PFP
Wow, there's a lot to digest here. I can understand Ranger's gambit and I can see myself pulling something similar in his position. I'll try to post replies to people when I've got some time a little later.
Mod, or anyone really, what's the current vote count?
Wow, there's a lot to digest here. I can understand Ranger's gambit and I can see myself pulling something similar in his position. I'll try to post replies to people when I've got some time a little later.
Mod, or anyone really, what's the current vote count?
10205
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 17, 2013, 08:07:32 pm »
Griff, that's right, it's in a seperate ability all together that protects me from the lovers. Ranger, I wanted to believe you because you were telling people I was town, but it looks like you slipped up. You got the other details right- did you just find the power in list of mafia powers? Why would you lie about the claim?
10206
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 17, 2013, 07:31:21 pm »
Ranger
Griff
He has 2 other abilities With the first having the initials: L F K and the second having the initials: H B.I'm going to follow Hapah's advice and avoid saying the exact name of the role- I think you were given slightly obfuscated names for this very reason. You've detailed the Lover's one shot exactly and the name was right enough.
Those are the initials of the names i was given so NQT may confirm them or deny them at this time.
Griff
That means that someone does have a kill ability. Therefor probably normal game and I'm just being paranoid. Or Web is trolling you. One of the two.Or, as the case actually is, an aspect of one of my other powers makes me immune to kills from my lover's picks. The affection I spread works both ways
Your night ability only gave you a read in terms of maybe? Why was this omitted from your original claim?I assumed at the time that Vector had performed a night action, but it occured to me afterwards that I'd have got the same result merely if she'd been redirected to Zrk2 and yet took no action. (Also, I never claimed it was my own ability that gave this info- but I guess it doesn't matter either way).
10207
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 17, 2013, 05:14:53 pm »
Vector
Toaster
TolyK
I decide to publicise the fact that I lied about the lovers claim, to explain the trap and try to be as above board with my necessary duplicity as possible: I know that town should know why in case someone mysteriously dies a phase after someone else dying.
I know that I might be wrong about my picks, so I decide to gauge whether either of them try to kill me- either with a failed NK action, or targeting me during the day. Day 2 comes around and both these things happen.
Still, I'm not certain enough to out the lovers as containing scum: the failed NK could be explained in other ways (a mistarget on Sheep, for instance) and the lover's lynch vote might just be distancing, with them planning to remove it before it leads to my lynch. So I wait on that.
Begining of Day 2, Wuba tells me that I now cannot vote because Ford is dead. I'm annoyed with myself and I decide to let people know about the dangers of the flavour text.
Meanwhile, I have learned in the night that if Vector had a night action, Zrk2 was the target. As Zrk2 seems fine, this makes me trust her slightly more than I did and I decide to share the info as well.
Day 2 brings Ranger's claim. At first I think he might be scum trying to keep me around: a town member who can't vote might rank lower in their to-lynch list. I ask him the name of the ability he chose and he gets the name right, confirming that he genuinely used the ability.
Hapah claims Toaster is town, which is interesting and I don't know what to think- at first I'm inclined to believe him as I'd got a kind of mistaken-town vibe from Toaster, but then I wondered if Hapah was scum and was lying to boost Toaster's trustworthiness to reinforce my mislynch (but then, obviously not everything has to be about me). I just don't have enough info right now to judge the truth or motives of the claim
Now it's about a day until the deadline and I'm drawn in the lynch vote, with no way of breaking the tie myself. I try to get the people on my lynch to see reason, knowing that at least some of them may be town.
And I think that's about it- did I miss anything important?
You've got to be nuts if you think that someone confirming one of your abilities/trying to keep you alive a little bit longer means that they're town.Well sure, a third party might have an incentive. Don't see scum wanting to stick their necks out like that. Except... worst case Ranger is hoping I'm mislynched and then he can say I told you so and look more town. But... it seems way too implausible a gambit. Also, why would scum be given a role inspect? I guess it's possible, but it strikes me as unlikely. Unlike Hapah's claim, Ranger has provided secret information that only Wuba and I would know: the name of my ability. This makes me trust him more. Obviously, you don't know what my role PM says so I can understand your reticence to believe this point.
Toaster
Also, even when you and I are town, that doesn't mean Ranger and Hapah are town.I'm inclined to trust Ranger a bit more, but sure- there's no accounting for crazy gambits, third parties or whatever
TolyK
NQT, you have two very good reasons to earn my trust (though you might not know it). Please explain everything that you did, in order, from the first day, and the reasoning behind it. About 1-2 sentences each. And in between everything that you know that happened.Day 1, I receive my role ability. I know that I have a one shot that allows me to give a private chat to any two players, but it inflicts lovers. I also see that the lovers won't be able to NK me. I decide to try to entrap scum by using it on myself. Wuba informs me that I can't self target, so I decide to try to use it to trap scum in a different way: I tell everyone I can give a private chat and gauge their responses. Some people are very dismissive, others are more enthused. I decide to give it to two players that gave very town responses, in order to create a mason chat.
I decide to publicise the fact that I lied about the lovers claim, to explain the trap and try to be as above board with my necessary duplicity as possible: I know that town should know why in case someone mysteriously dies a phase after someone else dying.
I know that I might be wrong about my picks, so I decide to gauge whether either of them try to kill me- either with a failed NK action, or targeting me during the day. Day 2 comes around and both these things happen.
Still, I'm not certain enough to out the lovers as containing scum: the failed NK could be explained in other ways (a mistarget on Sheep, for instance) and the lover's lynch vote might just be distancing, with them planning to remove it before it leads to my lynch. So I wait on that.
Begining of Day 2, Wuba tells me that I now cannot vote because Ford is dead. I'm annoyed with myself and I decide to let people know about the dangers of the flavour text.
Meanwhile, I have learned in the night that if Vector had a night action, Zrk2 was the target. As Zrk2 seems fine, this makes me trust her slightly more than I did and I decide to share the info as well.
Day 2 brings Ranger's claim. At first I think he might be scum trying to keep me around: a town member who can't vote might rank lower in their to-lynch list. I ask him the name of the ability he chose and he gets the name right, confirming that he genuinely used the ability.
Hapah claims Toaster is town, which is interesting and I don't know what to think- at first I'm inclined to believe him as I'd got a kind of mistaken-town vibe from Toaster, but then I wondered if Hapah was scum and was lying to boost Toaster's trustworthiness to reinforce my mislynch (but then, obviously not everything has to be about me). I just don't have enough info right now to judge the truth or motives of the claim
Now it's about a day until the deadline and I'm drawn in the lynch vote, with no way of breaking the tie myself. I try to get the people on my lynch to see reason, knowing that at least some of them may be town.
And I think that's about it- did I miss anything important?
10208
Mafia / Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 2
« on: April 17, 2013, 01:17:29 pm »
Dariush, rudeness is unbecoming. I promised to relight Solifuge's white candle so that's what I'm doing.
Snuff Dariush's White Candle- we can relight your green tomorrow.
Snuff Dariush's White Candle- we can relight your green tomorrow.
10209
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 17, 2013, 01:07:21 pm »
Vector
I skimmed through Ranger's inspect and will take a fuller look at it in a while.Please do: he confirms my lover's ability.
Right now, though, you're calling me to build a scumteam, even though I told you that I know from experience that that's a bad idea, and you've tried to explain how barely playing D1 is fine on the same reasons. So either it's fine to barely-play D1 and it's fine to hold back from looking for teams, or it's not fine to barely-play D1 and it's not fine to hold back from looking for teams. By your reasoning, these situations are mutually exclusive.No- this is an obfuscation of what I was saying. Despite being very busy Day 1 (which I explained at the time), I took meaningful actions that helped me better identify how scummy people were. Creating a scum team without a flip isn't helpful- I agree; but you seem determined to lynch me and so if you're town then I've essentially flipped scum in your mind, so why shouldn't you be forced to think more clearly over whether I could conveivably be on a scum team?
Pick one. You can't have it both ways.
And now, you're saying that you must be town because a confirmed townie helped you get off from being lynched. Why? That doesn't make sense!I actually wrote my response to you before Hapah's reveal about Toaster-- I should have gone back and looked over what I'd written. (It sometimes takes me a while to write up long response-posts, during which time new posts are made which I continue to respond to.) Are you saying that Toaster is confirmed town now? Why are you taking Hapah's claim more seriously than Ranger's functionally identical claim?
You're also saying that RangerCado's inspection on you means he must be town? Why? That... doesn't make much sense, either.No, I'm saying either we're both town or we're both scum (or he's some kind of weird 3rd party that has an incentive to keep me alive). Just like Hapah's claim on Toaster.
10210
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 17, 2013, 11:17:21 am »
Vector
You talk about not wanting to speculate before a scum flip, well I feel that way on Day 1- before a flip there's little to go on. I've laid traps with my claims and it's easier to see who's lining up as scum in light of them. It's unorthodox, but it is scum hunting. Now I can't vote, my power to press my claims is limited but I'm still following up on people.
My claims have been truthful except where omiting elements have helped me assess scuminess of others. I'd have to be pretty insane to be making this stuff up.
What do you think of Ranger's inspect? Have you even read it? It's pretty much the most important thing that's happened this day. If I'm scum then Ranger must be scum, right? Does Ranger's activities look scummy to you?
And if I'm scum then Toaster must be scum too: I was about to be lynched and it was only with his co-operation that we got Ford instead. Does a NQT-Ranger-Toaster scum team even make sense?
Obviously, if you're scum or third-party then you won't really care, but if you're town like I think you probably are then you owe it to town to try your damnedest not to mislynch people.
Toaster
Did you ever watch the original Wicker Man?
I feel a bit like Sergeant Howie. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and helped you burn Ford. He turned out innocent and our crop is still failing. When you mislynch me then where will you be?
Griff
Ranger
ZU
TolyK
Hapah
I think I'll have enough info to give proper reads by the end of the day.
I'm short for time and haven't had a chance to reread since the beginning of D2, but just to get some of this out of the way before I reread this evening... I feel like all of this rigamarole about your role, the active-lurking, the lack of actual data you put out feels a little bit. . . I don't know, staged? I realize this sounds crazy, but I occasionally wonder if you lovers'd anyone at all. It'd be an interesting ruse.I thought it was just flavour text. I'd forgotten all about it by the time the lynch rolled round and even if I had have remembered and thought it significant, there was still no guarantee that Ford was town. Reread your own role PM, maybe you'll find something useful.
And beyond that, you hear you've got an affection for Ford, so... you kill Ford. Why? That doesn't seem logical.
You talk about not wanting to speculate before a scum flip, well I feel that way on Day 1- before a flip there's little to go on. I've laid traps with my claims and it's easier to see who's lining up as scum in light of them. It's unorthodox, but it is scum hunting. Now I can't vote, my power to press my claims is limited but I'm still following up on people.
My claims have been truthful except where omiting elements have helped me assess scuminess of others. I'd have to be pretty insane to be making this stuff up.
What do you think of Ranger's inspect? Have you even read it? It's pretty much the most important thing that's happened this day. If I'm scum then Ranger must be scum, right? Does Ranger's activities look scummy to you?
And if I'm scum then Toaster must be scum too: I was about to be lynched and it was only with his co-operation that we got Ford instead. Does a NQT-Ranger-Toaster scum team even make sense?
Obviously, if you're scum or third-party then you won't really care, but if you're town like I think you probably are then you owe it to town to try your damnedest not to mislynch people.
NotQuiteThere, it's hella specious to claim that someone who asks for role data after you've promised is role-fishing. That's entrapment.I don't mind giving more info where it's reasonable and you can see from my post record that that's exactly what I have been doing after every claim. There's a big difference though between clarifying and saying absolutely everything about my role regardless of whether it's in town's interests to make that full claim. Is that understandable?
Toaster
Wait, what? Vector saying she didn't target anyone is verification of your claim?I should have been more specific: claims that I have made have been independently verified, though not all these claims have yet. I've given more information than anyone else in this game so this should be no surprise. Specifically, my claim not to be able to vote and my claim about my lover's ability have been verified (by the mod and Ranger) and my claim to being immune to lover's kills is at the very least plausible given the lack of a NK, but it's understandable if you want to hold off on believing that until we all know more.
Did you ever watch the original Wicker Man?
Spoiler: actual spoiler (click to show/hide)
Griff
A thought on how to tell if we have a cult without a kill ability, does your lover's ability only protect you from being killed, or does it give you ability immunity as well?Only kills I'm afraid: the Lovers can use non-kill abilities on me all they like. A cult is an interesting idea but what evidence do we actually have on this?
Ranger
I'm also half expecting something else from NQTI might say some more about another of my abilities tomorrow if I think it's in town's interests, but I'm not sure that I'll survive the day at this rate (and it's not as if I could tie the vote at the last moment).
ZU
I'm really doubtful of NQT's claim at this point. Griffon's paranoia on cultists is kinda strange, but I guess NQT could be a cult leader. Love cult? Dunno lol.Specifically, which claims do you doubt? What possible incentive would I have to lie about this stuff?
TolyK
Would that be a scum or town redirector, though?Could conceivable be either: all alignments have an incentive to misdirect enemies. If scum redirector, then both Zrk2 and Vector would not be scum.
Hapah
Toaster is town, according to the Truth Magics.Ooh. This either means that either both you and Toaster are town or you're both scum and you're lying. He's not under any particular danger right now, so I can't see why you'd do that, so my instinct is to think you're both town (notwithstanding the small possibility Toaster has a Godfather type role).
I think I'll have enough info to give proper reads by the end of the day.
10211
Mafia / Re: The Great Temple (Bastard game) - Day 2
« on: April 17, 2013, 05:44:31 am »
Hmm. I promised Solifuge that I'd relight his white and I feel like some of you are moving the goalposts now. We haven't yet tried relighting a snuffed white and this is something we should try and discover.
Mod, can I double-vote? If so:
Light Solifuge White
Light Solifuge White
Mod, can I double-vote? If so:
Light Solifuge White
Light Solifuge White
10212
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 16, 2013, 08:07:27 pm »
Vector
(Also, I'm sorry my info about your targeting wasn't helpful- if you're sure you didn't action anyone last night then perhaps we have a redirecter?)
I'm not willing to look for team interactions until we've lynched someone and had them flip scum. This is a bucket of WIFOM served up on a porcelain plate.Sure, clear analysis can only follow from a scum flip- I agree. Do you think I'd be a better candidate for a lynch than anyone else? Are my actions more consistent with me being scum than anyone else's? It's fine if you honestly come to these conclusions, but I'd like to know that you've thought it through. From where I'm standing it looks like you've lazily parked your vote on me and are now waiting for me to hang without further examination of the facts. For someone that I'm otherwise reading as town, this doesn't look good.
(Also, I'm sorry my info about your targeting wasn't helpful- if you're sure you didn't action anyone last night then perhaps we have a redirecter?)
10213
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 16, 2013, 05:40:34 pm »
Edit:
Urist Imiknorris- what do you think of Ranger's inspect claim?
Vector, if I were scum, who would it make sense for me to be on a scum team with?
ZUNQT: If you think one of them is scum, why don't you report the results now? Also if one of them were scum, why wouldn't they not kill you and keep their cover?I've answered these questions to others; in short: 1, I'm not yet certain. 2, That's entirely possible, hence 1.
Urist Imiknorris- what do you think of Ranger's inspect claim?
Vector, if I were scum, who would it make sense for me to be on a scum team with?
10214
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 16, 2013, 04:25:51 pm »
ZU
Toaster
Griff
NQT: If you think one of them is scum, why don't you report the results now? Also if one of them were scum, why wouldn't they not kill you and keep their cover?I've answered these questions to others; in short: 1, I'm not yet certain. 2, That's entirely certain, hence 1.
Toaster
NQT: Then I feel no urge to unvote you.So what you're saying is that despite the fact that my claims have been independently verified, and that my previous withholding of information have been shown to be purposeful and pro-town, you'd like to see me hang because I don't roll over to your overt role-fishing?
Griff
You never did answer why you originally planned on targeting yourself with this ability.Sorry, I thought I did. I wanted to eithe rbe part of a mason team, or blackmail scum into not killing me. Despite the risks, I thought it'd be a good move for my game. Turned out not to be possible, and I'm not unhappy with my picks.
10215
Mafia / Re: Magic Mafia - Day 2: Grand Slam [1 Replacement]
« on: April 16, 2013, 03:17:47 pm »
Toly
Griff
Tiruin
Zrk2
Toaster
(Will answer outstanding questions when not at work, later)
I see your point. I hadn't considered how a town-scum pair would behave with each other/whether they'd suspect one another if I died in the night. Hmm.Quote from: NQTMy argument is this: 1. I'm immune to kills from lovers. 2. The lovers wouldn't have known this. 3. Scum lovers would have a big incentive to kill me before I out them. 4. The results of the night are consistent with me being targeted by scum lovers. There are of course many other possible occurences, but until I have further info, I can't rule out the possibility just described.I am exactly asking about point 3. WHY do they have a big incentive to kill you? What if they think you don't have reason to out them, because they're not scummy? You're going from the assumption that they know that you know they're scum (double assumption ftw/wtf?), because otherwise either (a) you won't be poking them out (if you don't think they're scum), or (b) they won't expect you poking them out. Also, by you dying the maffer would lose "loyalty points" to the other lover (since why otherwise would scum kill you, if they could get info on the dual-town-pair from you?).
What are your arguments for this?
Mistake in speech. I meant, where did you even get the idea?It was just an IF- I don't know anything about Zrk2 other than he's a belligerent fellow.
Griff
NQT:Essentially, if I give away too much about the mechanics of some of my powers, scum will have a better handle on how to get rid of me.I thought it might be useful for town to know about the targeting, but I don't think it's necessarily in town's interest to know how I know. Hopefully, you'll understand.There are a couple reasons why it might not be in the towns best interest to know; however, can you at least tell us why you cant tell us?
Tiruin
More details on this thing you saw. Was there anything regarding what you saw?No. All I can say is what I already said. Vector targeted or was redirected to Zrk2 last night, but might not have actually used an action. I've got no reason to doubt what Vector said. It's a shame the info wasn't actually very useful in the end.
This is fallible in the way in that the one fact is they're the informed minority. While you could say who the lovers are - how do we even know they're scum unless any conclusive and reasonable case is presented?You make some good points and it's precisely because there are so many grounds for doubt that I haven't and do not yet plan to out the lovers.
How does it look like a scum lover targeted you? You keep drifting to that topic and yet there are many (count: more than 10) other people who might've acted. Roleblock. Doc/+1 life. Divert/Nullify. Delay.
Zrk2
YOU said YOU thought they were scum because YOU think they tried to kill YOU, so maybe YOU should out the people that YOU are convinced are scum.Someone's getting heated! Everyone, can you see this guy! I never claimed to be certain or convinced of anything here, hence why I haven't outed anyone.
Toaster
Okay, Mister Information, why don't you tell us what you did last night, then?Not in town's interests to say yet.
(Will answer outstanding questions when not at work, later)