Bay 12 Games Forum

Good news is that you'll be able to cram larger weapons in now.

Quote from: Bremen on February 03, 2012, 12:58:28 pm

Quote from: Flying Dice on February 03, 2012, 12:16:41 pm

I also oppose the use of AMM for practical reasons. They can't do anything a few heavy PD cruisers with shitloads of gauss turrets can't do better.



The main issue with particle beams has always been that their extreme (comparative) range is supposed to be an advantage, but is crippled by the fact that similar levels of FC tech will only let you use a small portion of that range, and they hit the hard cap on EW FC range much sooner than the other EW tracks.

Actually, they don't. Assuming equal particle beam and FC tech particle beams will always be slightly lower range.

Incorrect. Assuming all FCs and PBs are equal tech, and that the FC has the 4x range multiplier, then:

TL1: FC: 40k km; PB: 60k km
TL2: FC: 64 km; PB: 100k km
TL5: FC: 160k km; PB: 240k km
TL8: FC: 300k km; PB: 500k km
TL12: FC: 700k km; PB: 1200k km

And so on and so forth.

That's for 50% accuracy though; the actual max range of a FC is double that.

January 8, 2017: First Fleet arrives at Earth and begins refueling. Four Horo class gunboats are drawn from second fleet to replace losses.

February 1, 2017: With the new shipbuilding efforts, Earth's economy is begining to show the strain. In the month of January, the UHF spent nearly 1.2 billion credits more than it received. At this rate they will be in debt before December.



The two largest expenses are research and shipbuilding, but between the Myriad and the AC Automatons making cuts in these areas seems unwise. Instead, it is decided to stop purchasing civilian minerals and rely on government owned mines for now. This has a double effect in that it removes an expense and the sale of minerals on the open market will also be taxable. On the downside, once the minerals are gone they are gone; every ton of duranium sold to the private sector is a ton the UHF can't mine.

May 3, 2017: With the budget crisis mostly solved, the UHF economists begin to look outward. A fleet of Liberty freighters begin transporting construction factories to Hope, and Earth continues coverting some mines with full automation. It is hoped with a few mining colonies Hope will one day be a self-sufficient production center.

September 11, 2017: Scientists develop new software to improve the range and accuracy of fire control systems. Their next project will be to develop a small unit of space marines suitable for boarding enemy vessels. Using the new technology plus the earlier designs for a fusion power plant, engineers produce an improved Brazwell design

Brazwell II class Gunboat    800 tons     92 Crew     155 BP      TCS 16  TH 138  EM 0
8625 km/s     Armour 2-7     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Maint Life 7.04 Years     MSP 61    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 2    5YR 32    Max Repair 48 MSP

High Performance Ion Drive (1)    Power 138    Fuel Use 780%    Signature 138    Armour 0    Exp 36%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 14.4 billion km   (19 days at full power)

Light Plasma Cannon (1)    Range 60,000km     TS: 8625 km/s     Power 6-3     RM 1    ROF 10        6 3 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 0
Gunboat Fire Control mkII (1)    Max Range: 80,000 km   TS: 8000 km/s     88 75 62 50 38 25 12 0 0 0
Small Fusion Reactor (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%
More accurate and longer ranged, the Brazwell II's power plant also has a greatly reduced chance of exploding.

January 8, 2018: The last three Cornwallis class light carriers are completed; from now on Drake Yards will be producing the Lexington class.

With 12 carriers capable of ferrying 60 gunboats, Admiral Hannah Avram decides it is time to deal with the Alpha Centauri aliens once and for all by destroying their orbital platforms.

Naval officers quickly move to quash rumors that the Navy is just looking to get rid of a bunch of old Brazwell class gunboats.

To attempt to minimize incoming fire, the gunboat squadron will make a stealth approach at slow speed in order to minimize the chance of detection. Accompanying them will be a Semmes(EM) class early warning craft, whose sensors specialize in detecting targeting sensors. As soon as the orbital platforms begin targeting the gunboats, they will go to active sensors and rush the platforms.

The plan should be mostly foolproof.

January 15, 2018: First Fleet enters Alpha Centauri and launches a squadron consisting of 1 Scipio, 1 Semmes, 3 Rodney, 25 Horo, and 30 Brazwell. The gunboats quietly set course for the innermost planet.

January 18, 2018: The gunboats reach the midpoint of their journey and reduce speed.

January 28, 2018: While tedious, the slow approach is paying dividends. The fleet has approached within 5 million kilometers of Alpha Centauri with no sign they have been detected. The gunboats reduce speed still further and begin their final approach.



At 2.5 million kilometers, the Semmes detects enemy targeting emissions. The gunboats activate their sensors and go to full speed. It will take the gunboats slightly less than 5 minutes to close to point blank range.

Less than a minute after activating their sensors the squadron detects 62 incoming size 1 missiles, confirming speculation that they were fired from the platforms. As expected, point defense fire proved ineffective and gunboats begin to explode, but it's too late to turn back now.

The gunboats reach extreme plasma range at great cost; only the Semmes, a Rodney, 13 Horo, and 18 Brazwells still remain functional. As there is no way to be sure which of the targets is firing the missiles, the gunboats open fire on the larger structure.



As the gunboats fire, the unit designated Shulpavu opens up with large numbers of kinetic weapons, believed to be similar in function to the UHF coil guns. Dozens of tiny impacts shred the Brazwell 016. It's now a slugging match.

Five Brazwells fall, but their sacrifice is not in vain; after hundreds of plasma and railgun hits the Shulpavu begins to disintegrate. The remaining gunboats turn their guns on the Nyati.

The Nyati proves to be the source of the small missiles and continues to launch salvos as it is pounded, but it soon falls as well. It has been a bloody victory, but a victory none the less.



Total losses for the UHF were 1 Scipio, 3 Rodney, 12 Horo, and 20 Brazwell. Less than half the gunboat squadron remains, but when tonnage is considered both sides losses were roughly equal; and the enemy was two orbital platforms with weapons well suited to combat against gunboats. The squadron begins rescuing lifepods and then returns to the carriers.

Amazingly, a closer inspection reveals that one of the Rodney class, presumed destroyed, is still intact and her surviving crew remains inside.



Its armor is completely gone and every system is damaged except the crew quarters and some fuel tanks, but the ship is intact and repairable. It cannot restore its engines or move, but one of the Cornwallis class should be able to retrieve it now that the system is presumed clear of hostiles.

(Experienced Aurora players will notice something wrong here; Yes, I am an idiot)

February 20, 2018: The carriers arrive in the inner system and retrieve their small craft. Engineers begin attempting to restore the Rodney 003

No, I don't think any of us are quite that stupid. And if the unconventional weapons really bother you, feel free to write up a bit of fluff about internal politics and weapons contracts to excuse a shift to missiles, lasers, and gauss.

Its... interesting. They don't really bother me, but my inner perfectionist struggles against using them in roles where they're extremely unsuited (Plasma cannons are really only worthwhile in larger sizes, and particle beams are innately long range weapons that are also more efficient at larger sizes).

Bremen, this is very fun to read. 

I'm glad people are enjoying it! Feel free to suggest anything you'd like to see in the updates.

Are you allowing the use of anti-missile missiles?

There's no rule against missiles, really, but they're nerfed to do half damage. This makes anti-missiles significantly less effective at low tech, and I've never been a big fan of them anyways (I prefer PD; that way your fleet doesn't suddenly go boom when you run out of ammo).

So the basic tactic your using is to bumrush the enemy, and shoot them point blank until they die. Sounds good.

You are missing the key point of doing the bumrushing with cheap, replaceable ships.

Since that battle didn't accomplish much, have a bonus update!

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December 15, 2016: The CVLs Lee and Napoleon launch from Drake orbital docks. Taking aboard their respective gunboat squadrons, they join First Fleet and head for the Alpha Centauri system.

December 21, 2016: First Fleet enters Alpha Centauri. The plan is similar to the one for Lacaille, which was (relatively) successful; the notable exception is that the carriers can wait at the jump point and flee at the first sign of trouble.

The size 1 missiles encountered on the previous excursion are a grave threat to the gunboats; unfortunately there does not seem to be any strategy against them other than trying to endure them until the ships reach firing range.

December 26, 2016: After a rather tense Christmas celebration, the Scipio's long range sensors detect an enemy vessel approaching at high speed. The ship has the same targeting profile as the Mamba class from the previous battle, but seems to be operating alone. Sensing the chance to defeat the enemy in detail, the GBs change course to meet the Mamba head on.

Thiry minutes later, the Sebo is detected approaching from a vector in line with Alpha Centauri-A I. It may have been refueling at a planetary depot when the gunboats were detected. The gunboat squadron will attempt to destroy the Mamba before its friend can join the battle.



Shortly thereafter, two additional contacts are detected in orbit of Alpha Centauri-A I. As their thermal signatures were not detected in the previous battle and they do not appear to be leaving orbit, it is assumed that these are orbital weapons platforms or maintenance bases. Without the ability to move they cannot interfere in the current battle, so they will be ignored for now.

At 0300 hours 6 incoming missiles are detected. Their vector indicates they were launched by the Mamba.

A hail of plasma and railgun projectiles intercept the incoming missiles and reduce them to wreckage. A single missile from a second wave manages to evade and impact Horo 011, but its armor absorbs the blow. The fleet endures 3 further salvos with only minor damage.

With sensors showing no additional missiles, the gunboat squadron closes to point blank range on the Mamba and opens fire with all weapons.

The Mamba appears to be using some form of ECM to interfere with a target lock, but at point blank range it is only partially effective. The Mamba is hit by 6 plasma cannon rounds and over two dozen railgun projectiles, but shows no sign of damage. It attempts to ram Brazwell 025, but the nimble craft manages to evade.

Intelligence hypothesizes that the Mamba is exclusively missile armed and has exhausted its magazines.



The Mamba goes for another ramming attempt while the plasma cannon are recharging, and this time the Brazwell 025 is unable to avoid it. The Brazwell is splattered like a fly on a windshield before its crew can make it to the escape pods, but the Mamba is damaged by the impact as well and its targeting emissions abruptly cease. Two more plasma cannon shots lance out and the Mamba splits in two. There is no sign of the ship losing atmosphere, supporting the theory that they are automated vessels.



For the first time, a ship of the AC Automatons has been destroyed, and the Human forces have lost only a single gunboat. The Sebo is still approaching; the decision is made to hold position at the wreck and try to entice the Sebo further from the possible support of the orbiting platforms.

As the Sebo reaches 2.5 million kilometers, a salvo of 16 missiles is detected. The Squadron reverses course in order to reduce the closing velocity and hopefully buy more time to shoot down the missiles.

Wave after wave of missiles home in, but the prove easy targets and the gunboats only take a few hits. Then a missile manages to avoid counter fire and hit the damaged the engines of the Horo 012; the ship stops dead in space, and the squadron commander decides to hold position and defend the ship until its engineers can repair the drive. More salvos arrive, and eventually a second missile hits the Horo 012. Damage is heavy, but amazingly the ship still survives.



Unfortunately there is no longer any hope of repairing the engines. The crew of the Horo 012 is ordered to abandon ship, and the life pods are picked up by the squadron. Seeking vengeance, the squadron then sets a direct course for the Sebo. More missiles continue to land as the distance closes, and then an unlucky hit to the Horo 011 damages the ion drive. Unlike with the Horo 012, the drive fails catastrophically and the ship explodes



Although the missiles have wrecked great destruction on the gunboat squadron, they are nearly to firing range against the Sebo



Mindful of the Mamba's attempts to ram, the gunboat squadron stays a cautious distance from the Sebo and begins bombarding it with plasma projectiles. The shorter range railguns of the Horo class remain on guard against point blank missile launches. Unfortunately the ECM of the Sebo greatly reduced accuracy, and the Plasma projectiles effectiveness is also severely degraded.

After taking several salvos of plasma hits without sign of damage, the Sebo launches yet another salvo of missiles. Without the help of the Brazwell class, five missiles manages to penetrate the last minute point defense fire and destroy the Horo 013.

New orders are issued; the squadron is to close to point blank and attempt to destroy the Sebo before it can launch another salvo. The ramming is believed to be a lesser threat.

Plasma rounds and kinetic slugs tear into the ship, and its thermal signature begins to drop, indicating that it is losing engines. It makes no attempt to ram but instead appears to maneuver for another missile launch. If so, it never gets the chance; three more salvos of point blank fire reduces it to a burning wreck.

The fleet has destroyed over 30,000 tons of AC Automaton ships for the loss of only four gunboats, proving the viability of the Bravski doctrine. Though the two stationary contacts remain, they can wait; the gunboat squadron stops to pick up lifepods and then retreats to its carriers for repairs.

January 1, 2016: As part of the Bravski Doctrine, a new gunboat variant is developed.

Scipio class Scout    800 tons     70 Crew     209.2 BP      TCS 16  TH 138  EM 0
8625 km/s     Armour 2-7     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 5.09 Years     MSP 82    AFR 10%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 5    5YR 79    Max Repair 126 MSP

High Performance Ion Drive (1)    Power 138    Fuel Use 780%    Signature 138    Armour 0    Exp 36%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 8.7 billion km   (11 days at full power)

Long Range Search Radar (1)     GPS 17640     Range 164.0m km    Resolution 140
Whereas the sensors of the Rodney class are intended for combat and firing purposes, the long range sensors of the Scipio are meant to locate enemy vessels at long range, so that gunboats can hunt them down or perhaps flee. If there had been a Scipio at Alpha Centauri, it is possible that the fleet would have had a better idea what they were dealing with.

Once construction on the newest carrier, the Caeser, finishes in June, it will be time for the UHF navy to finally strike back against the AC Automatons. But rather than attempting to destroy the ships in Alpha Centauri the first strike will take place at Lacaille, where only 6 small vessels were detected. The new Scipio class can provide advance warning if there are more hostile ships than anticipated. Once the new units are tested in combat, a strike on Alpha Centauri can be considered.

Until then, other business must take higher priorities. Earth's mineral deposits are rapidly being depleted, and stockpiles of Corundium in particular are critically low. The mineral is used to create mines as well as the energy weapons used in many warships.

The Sol system has only minor deposits of Corundium, but for now they will have to do. Freighters begin transporting automated mines to Asteroids #138 and #170, which each possess approximately 2,500 tons of the element. The Hope system contains several large deposits of corundium, including on the colony of Hope-A II, but they are quite low in accessibility.

With the population of Hope rapidly expanding, Earth begins construction of a sector command building to organize and track the new interstellar economy.

June 24, 2016: The CVL Caeser finishes on schedule; however the powerful sensors of the Scipio class are proving difficult to construct and the first ship is not expected to be ready until August.

June 29, 2016: A team of scientists develops a practical fusion reactor to provide power to energy weapons. Their next project will be to use the technology for a more powerful plasma based drive.

August 8, 2016: The first Scipio is ready for combat, and the navy begins organizing for a strike into Lacaille.

The First Fleet, consisting of the CVL Alexander, Caeser, Cornwallis, Hannibal, Leonidas, Nobunaga, and Washington, plus their gunboat wings of 21 Brazwell, 13 Horo, and 1 Scipio, will enter the system. Due to the distance from the jump point to the system primary, they will then travel inwards to the location referred to as Waypoint 1. It is hoped that emissions control and the low thermal signature of the carriers will keep them from being detected.



Gunboats will then be launched and proceed to the wreck of the Discovery II. If the Scipio detects more enemy ships than expected, the gunboats will retreat to the jump point at maximum speed and rendezvous with the carriers.

August 16, 2016: Construction of a Sector Command HQ is completed on Earth. Majorie Ives takes over as governor of Earth Sector, and Mayme Bax takes her old position as Governor of Earth.

September 10, 2016: The First Fleet arrives at the Lacaille jump point near Pluto and enters the system.

September 19, 2016: The First Fleet arrives at Waypoint 1, launches gunboats, and then retreats back to the jump point.

September 20, 2016: The long range sensors of the Scipio detect 3 AC ships of an as yet unseen class, designated the Simbwaye. The ships are approaching the gunboats at 7095 km/s. As this is well below the Gunboat's speed of 8625 km/s the gunboats should be capable of avoiding combat.

Unfortunately, the carriers have not yet reached the jump point back to Sol. The decision is made to try to lead the enemy vessels away from the carriers.



Slightly over an hour later two ships of yet another new class are detected by the Scipio. This class is designated the Anzone. After another hour, it becomes obvious that the enemy ships are pursuing the gunboat squadron rather than the carriers. This is good news; the gunboat squadron can avoid action with the slower ships but would be forced to defend the carriers or risk being stranded in the system.



At 22 hundred hours, the original 6 Nyryat contacts are detected at 3 million kilometers. The Scipio's sensors are able to determine that the ships are only 1,000 tons; hardly larger than the gunboats themselves. Their high speed means they are closing on the gunboat squadron, but Admiral Hannah Avram is confident that the 35 Terran ships will be able to overwhelm the enemy ships if they choose to engage without support.



At a range of 1.5 million KM, active targeting systems are detected from the Nyryat ships. The gunboat squadron reverses course and attempts to close to firing range. Seconds later, 55 Size 3 missiles are detected; it appears the Nyryat are missile armed. The gunboats prepare for point defense fire.

Plasma and railgun projectiles destroy 27 of the 55 missiles. The remaining 28 missiles destroy three Brazwell gunboats with multiple strength 5 nuclear explosions. Seconds later, the Nyryat contacts change course and begin fleeing the gunboat squadron. It is assumed they are out of missiles. As the gunboat squadron cannot hope to catch the faster vessels, it comes about and begins rescuing lifepods.

Admiral Hannah Avram is left with a difficult choice. If the enemy vessels have a source of reloads in system, there is nothing stopping them from launching salvo after salvo against the gunboats. Instead, the decision is made to attempt to disengage. The carriers drop speed by half to minimize their drive plumes, and the gunboats disengage all active sensors. It is hoped that the enemy vessels will not be able to track either group.

12 hours later, the Scipio briefly activates its active sensors to find that no enemy ships are in range. Either they have disengaged, or they have gone after the carrier. The group sets a course paralleling that of the carriers and once again shuts down their sensors. The waiting is tense; the carriers have no sensors and the first warning that the ploy was unsuccessful would likely be the detonation of missiles.

Several days later, the gunboat squadron rendezvous with the carriers and the ships proceed to the jump point.

October 1, 2016: The First Fleet jumps back into the Sol System. Its gunboats are deployed to guard the jump point while the carriers return to Earth for fuel and resupply.

The fleet has been defeated again, but this time most of the forces were able to escape; the loss of three Brazwell gunboats is to be regretted but at least their crews could be rescued. In return humanity has gained valuable intelligence about the enemy.

The strength and number of the enemy ships in Lacaille is troubling; at least 5 medium size vessels plus what appears to be 6 missile armed gunboats, possibly with a mothership.

Alpha Centauri now appears to be the weaker force. Two additional carriers are scheduled to be completed in December, bringing the total force projection of the First Fleet to 45 gunboats. Perhaps it is time to take the fight back to Alpha Centauri.

Something I will try eventually. Or maybe railguns, I always liked railgun fighters.

The Ghost of Sheb can rest easy, though; the gunboats will have their fun before the inevitable march of technology results in them being "miniaturized" to fighters.