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Topics - nenjin

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166
Is this intended? Given how long diplomats will wait while your trader/noble fulfills other duties, seems a little odd that they'll pack up. The diplomat had literally just touched the map when my trader went into a mood, and promptly left without even entering the fortress.

I guess moods also make you ineligible to be mayor? Because mine (who is also the trader) just got the boot immediately afterward.

167
DF Suggestions / Thief of the Fortress
« on: January 29, 2010, 06:18:44 pm »
I did some searches and there a few threads months old, but none really seem to capture this idea, so...

In an effort to further complicate established fortress life....The Thief.

The Thief would be a secret job that is assigned to one of your non-legendary dwarves once your wealth/population reaches a certain level. The Thief would also require the dwarven economy to be active.

While "working" the thief would read as "on break."  They would regularly walk into people's rooms and take items from them. The owner gets an unhappy thought when the announcement "Urist McLandowner has discovered +Goblin Bone Earrings+ missing from his room!" shows up.

The Thief would store these items in secret on their person (Yes, that's a little out there if they've been active for a long time, and breaks the encumbrance limit rules, but it makes more sense than them storing it in their room...or creating containers that you would eventually discover.)

The Thief can only be uncovered by the Captain of the Guard and members of the Fortress guard. It would be a proximity-based test relying on the Judge of Intent skill. (Or perhaps some others.)

Once revealed, the thief stops being a member of your fortress and is treated as a hostile, and flees toward the nearest exit. This is a natural reaction, since the punishment for stealing from the fortress is death anyways. If you choose to imprison the thief by using cage traps or whatever, you'll have to contend with their superior restraint and door opening skills. (Perhaps the Thief has a secret job level that impacts these tests.) Best just to cut the bastards hands off and throw him into magma.

When the thief is revealed, they drop all the stolen loot they have, and the owners of recovered loot all get a big happy thought for seeing justice done. There would an interval period between the discovering of one thief and the activation of another.

Some caveats-

-Nobles cannot be chosen as the thief. They own everything, after all.

-At the time of Thief selection, any active military dwarves are excluded.

-Members of the Fortress Guard are never chosen as the thief.

-Legendary dwarves cannot be chosen as the thief. Thieves that become legendary stop being thieves, a new thief is selected, and the loot is placed in their inventory. That way it's like the original thief was never really active. The same applies to thieves who are moved into the fortress guard.

-Thieves do not steal, and cannot be revealed, while they are active members of the military who are on duty. This would prevent players from systematically stationing dwarves next to the Cpt. of the Guard to try and reveal the thief.

-Thieves that are part of the military DO steal when they are off duty, and can be revealed then.

-Thieves who are killed by something else (magma, goblins, HFS, ect...) would inadvertently be revealed when they die and their corpse is sitting on top of a mountain of loot.

While it would be cool to have a whole thieves guild running in the fortress, because you need to punish thieves and they would ultimately become an enemy of the fortress, you don't want to tie up a lot of the population doing it. And people will already be >< enough when a promising dwarf they were looking at turns out to be a klepto.

This might also encourage some fortress owners to take better care of their dwarves.....especially if an artifact has gone missing. Would be a shame to have that new peasant miner go dig out your magma channel...and watch some valuable stuff go up in flames.

There could be some additional traits that affect thief selection, such as:

-Personality types
-Room quality
-Average seasonal income
-# of owned items
-Raw agility
-Deity (God of Thieves?)
-Highest job skill (The least skilled job being the most likely to take up thievery)

Traits could also affect who the thief decides to steal from/what they steal:
-Dislikes authority (Wealthier citizens)
-Doesn't care about others (Anyone, or particularly the poor)
-Confident (Goes after high priced items, artifacts, the King's Throne, ect...)
-Doesn't do more than is necessary (prefers cheap, easy to get items)
-Other traits that affect how often the thief decides to steal.

And on.

There would still be ways to try and corner the thief...but they would be time-consuming (rotating people in and out of the Guard and military to zero in on the thief) and would disrupt work flow, so obsessively trying to locate the thief would come with it's own penalties.

168
DF Suggestions / Rethink the trade value of items not made in the Fort
« on: January 29, 2010, 05:07:40 pm »
So the biggest hole in game play I've found, as a new player, is trading goods you didn't make.

I've yet to be forced, other than in the first year, to NEED to produce goods for trading. I'm overflowing with (narrow *.*) (giant *.*) and (small *.*) goods taken from goblins.

I typically have 100+ pieces valued at less than 100, 20 to 30 pieces valued at over 700, and 10 or so valued at over 1,000.

And the goblins...they just never stop bringing their best duds to the fight.

I never pay attention to trader requests because....why bother? They're going to take it, and they're gong to like it.

"What's that? Need booze and meat for the Mountainhome? Here, have some (narrow cave spider silk socks) instead. Yes, I was very glad to do business with you too."

So trading seems like kind of bust except for the value of doing it "right" because it's fun for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. But it would help make trading a more tactical/strategic activity of your fortress if you didn't have so much free wealth to fall back on.

It would also help people (like me) shift inventory. When the trader comes, I always flag the foreign items farthest away from the depot for trading. Most of my trader time therefore is about forcing all my dwarves to move goods they've been ignoring all year.

The end result is that my stockpiles fill up with hundreds of items I've been making to skill up. And then it takes me two seasons for trading it all away to make space....and my ultimate reason is space management, not profit. And I get a distinctly sick feeling when I let the trader make 400% profit because I need to get rid of crap.

So, some suggestions and considerations-

-Limit how much gobbos bring with them. This one probably won't fly. DF likes the super realism of every guy out there has stuff and is usually fully dressed. Like most other RPGs though, this leads to inflation and the devaluation of pretty much everything in game, ala Morrowind and Oblivion.

-Add a modifier for [FOREIGN] goods that slashes their value up to 50% or more. If your dwarves were actively stealing or pillaging someone else for goods, I could see [FOREIGN] flagged items deserving their full value. But as it is, your dwarves are basically bottom feeding and the Mountainhome et. al just gobble it up.

-Devalue any item that was gained through combat. Blood/vomit tags already do this, severely, and I think the [COMBAT_USED] tag could do the same thing, just by a smaller amount. (Say, a 25% reduction in base value.)

I think this is the best solution however

-Add caravan preferences and limits to what goods they want to take. Caravans already have a weight limitation, why do they not also have preferences? And I don't mean that seeing wood products make elves shed a single tear. That's a start, but it's more a prohibitive thing than an actual economic consideration.

In real life, if you try to offload a bunch of crap on a merchant, at some point they go "Hey, I can't sell all this shit! No deal!" Caravans should behave the same way. They should be willing to take unlimited amounts of the goods they requested last season. They should only be willing to take a certain amount of any other good based on: a) how valuable it is to them at that time and b) how much of the item you are currently offering.

With these changes, planning a true export economy for your fortress would actually matter. As it is, you're mostly concerned with your fortress' internal economy, and the export economy usually just helps supplement it. (Food, booze, raw materials.)

Thoughts?

The cut off for a lot of this is something that would need to be tested. But, short of buying masterwork goods from the trader (and who the hell honestly does that?) if you're putting up 5k (20k when I'm feeling saucy) worth of trades with objects you didn't actually make...that's too much.

(And as an aside....I almost never worry about iron for the same reason. Goblins provide me, on a yearly basis, all the iron I could possibly need.)

169
DF Gameplay Questions / Breedable sentient species
« on: January 28, 2010, 05:21:45 pm »
I've gotten a lot of conflicting information on what is and isn't breedable in DF. What's the marker? Are only "Wild Animals" breedable, and does that include Frogmen, Lizardmen and the like? Is there some other tag that can be modified so species can breed? I assume Goblins can't be bred because, otherwise, they'd multiply outside your fortress walls during a siege.

170
DF Suggestions / Suggestions for Dwarven Wizards
« on: January 26, 2010, 11:24:42 pm »
After reading this rant on magic I cooked up some of my own ideas about how magic could work in DF.

I agree with Cpt. Failmore. It's the schlubs and practical people who make DF work, and in some ways, fun. You don't want to overshadow them (and the tons of soldiers you lose) by micromanaging a wizard so he can unleash teh perfect fireball. Magic gives you diminishing returns on fun the more effective it is.

I would like to see magic, just more as he described. Wizards being more about random "fun" than benefit. More chaos is usually more fun, and I think magic would be most entertaining if a dwarf wizard were like the noble from hell. If wizards were just combat oriented, like soldiers with area-affect attacks, they wouldn't be as much fun to have.

I could see their default job as "ruminating" where they wander the fortress away from crowds and think. Personality would play a large part in a wizard's behavior, especially "Openness to new ideas and experiences, quick to anger, confidence and cautiousness" When they decide what they're going to try, you'd get "Soandso McWizardry goes to work." 

And then they....

make it rain indoors
turn dwarves that piss them off into toads permanently
raise the dead inside the fortress
create a golem that enjoys walking through walls and doors (and who occasionally fights)
summon familiars that tend to poop everywhere and create miasma, and eat enough for three dwarves
randomly set things on fire
create permanent chasms in awkward places while screwing with the fabric of space and time
roll back (or forward) the seasons
summon demons/magma men/elementals
cripple your peasants by making them take part in "experiments"
experiment with captive animals/creatures, creating "super Goblins" or "super elephants" that then breed
make your plump helmets come to life to become mushroom men that attack your farmers
change people's gender (which either requires some same-sex coding...or it would end a marriage and give both dwarves MASSIVE unhappy thoughts)
mind control people (automatically making them friends, or old friends, possibly usurping elections)
polymorph random things (changing furniture into say, a rock, or a kitten into a tame Giant Olm)
change
   wood into SNAKES
   wood to stone
   flesh to stone
   stone to flesh (This Flesh Throne menaces with spikes of flesh and is encrusted with globs of flesh and encircled by bands of flesh)
mind wipe people (wipe their personality traits, making blank slates effectively)
create an epically huge stinking (miasma) cloud
teleports someone or something to a randomly location, possibly straight into HFS
tests an area of affect slow spell by casting it on themselves and then walking around your fort

...in other words, cause trouble.

Occasionally they might do something useful like....
 
throw a moderate fireball in a combat situation
enchant something (basically a high value decoration, like a singing instrument or talking sword)
move an impossibly heavy object or several objects at once with levitation
create food
instantly construct something with magic (at a variable quality)
produce an artifact (basically a strange mood...except wizards demand very high quality materials and aren't limited to one artifact in their life time)
duplicate a non-artifact item

...which we will call "spell casting."

But in general they would be a pain in the ass and trouble for your fortress.

They'd also run a higher risk of MADNESS than other dwarves. Their work regularly exposes them to good and bad thoughts of high magnitude...
 
"Soandso McWizardry pondered the infinite and was terrified/amazed recently"
"Soandso McWizardry had a failed/successful experiment recently"

An Insane Wizard would cause trouble at random on themselves frequently, so they would take themselves out of the picture quickly....(imagine a mind-wiped wizard wandering your halls) but not before doing some damage. A berzerk wizard would go full combat spells and throw lightning and fireballs. Wizards don't get melancholy, they go out with a bang one way or another.

The ways they show up could be varied. As was suggested in that rant, they could be homegrown, and the compulsion to become a wizard could be like a strange mood (and also based on personality, probably "enjoys intellectual discussions".) They might need an alchemist's craftshop or a new kind of workshop (library?) to take over, and require some kind of material to create their spellbook. (Say, leather, dye, cloth and bone?) Or they might show up on their own, or as part of the King's retinue. You'd probably want a character like this late in game, when they can't permanently cripple your fortress with their prestidigitation.

When they're not ruminating, spellcasting, causing trouble or doing default jobs, they're researching. Researching, in addition to other magical activities, is what gains the wizard job experience. Higher ranks of wizardry give the dwarf more options for what to do when they've finally settled on something. Researching would again require a craftshop for the wizard to work in.

I know a lot of people aren't sold on the idea of magic in DF, but cmon, how awesome would all that be, and what kind of stories would it produce?

171
DF Suggestions / A handful of suggestions
« on: January 26, 2010, 07:37:56 pm »
Hey all. Only been playing for a few (solid, sleepless) weeks now, but there are some tweaks I would like to see. Unsure how many of them might be covered in coming updates/already on the drawing board/requested to death already.

Trader/Caravan
-Browsing an ordered list would be helpful. Bonus points for adding filters for price, object type, material, weight, ect....Incidentally, I'd appreciate the left menu in the Stocks screen to be somewhat ordered to. After 9+ hours of DF, the eyes, they don't read so well anymore.

-A "Trade all/Buy all" button would be fabulous. Part of the reason I order way too much stuff to the trader at once is because I don't want to hassle with down, enter, down, enter more than I have to. And besides, I've already had to do that once, should I really need to do it again, on top of having to do it with the caravan's good as well...and to sell my goods....and to stop my trader from moving things to the depot...and to start my trader moving goods to the depot again....

-Use more of the screen. There's like 2/3rds unused real estate on the trader screen. Can't both lists display more?

-Ability to view Stocks from the Trade screen.

Container Interaction/Item display
-It would be nice to be able to designate an item in a bin for melting WITHOUT having to view the item first.

-I'd like to be able to see the quality and adornments on placed objects in "Look Around mode". Unless I've missed something, you can't view object descriptions when they are in place. Shouldn't viewing objects work similar to how engravings are viewed?

AI/Behavior
-I really wish my miners/builders would more intelligently approach how they build sometimes. It's a little silly how often they dig themselves on to inaccessible platforms, or build themselves into corners. The AI should really ask itself "Am I going to be trapped if I build this?" before it does it. It already does in a fashion, but it needs to take that next step of evaluating the dwarves' path after construction too.

OR, make it part of the Foremans's (that's what I call my Managers) job to supervise work sites so stuff like that doesn't happen. That'd be a cooler way to approach it. Maybe even make the "Stupid test" a function of job skill.

-Ability to designate a master stockpile that operates sort of like "Fish only from designated areas" works. My reasoning is that I build outpost stockpiles for my military and and the bulk of my civilians decide it's the best place to eat and drink. Probably because it has the newest goods and is close to a thoroughfare. Perhaps this will be addressed by the burrows update.

Priority Task Assignment
It would be nice to able to assign certain tasks not covered by work orders (hauling and mining) a priority flag, which automatically bumps it to the top of the job list. Preference would still apply, but the most willing dwarf able to do the job would go after that task first. This way you could direct the effort of miners towards resources you need now, and most importantly, get dumpers and haulers to fetch items that are important/obstructing right away. It's frustrating to have a doorway "conveniently" blocked by refuse or dropped items so it won't close, and wait a whole season before someone deals with it.

Something as easy as shift + P brings puts you in priority task assignment mode, and you can select one item marked for dumping, a grid of priority mining or an object on the ground for immediate actioning. It'd dove tail work orders which handle most of your automated tasks, while letting you handle expansion projects/important maintenance.

Military
I know military is getting a big update, but here's some anyways.

-Renaming squads, redux. Seems like people have been requesting that for a while.

-Another quasi-noble position for the military leader of the Fortress. I know, I know, that's technically the Captain of the Guard...but with the new world conflict arc, there's going to be a distinct divide between home and away military. So there should probably be "General" noble position. I already do this in my fortress, taking the first legendary, non-champion figure and making them the nominal head of military. The Captain of the Guard is just a lackey for the nobles, anyways.

-I'm guessing this has been heard before. Catapults really need a) to be able to fire up/down z-levels and deal damage and b) need target area designation. This hurling a boulder in a straight line across one z-level is for the birds. It might be good for amusing yourself, moving rock, and building stats without making ammo, but it lacks the natural awesome factor of the catapult. Ordering them to "drop stones around here" would be much more fun/effective. And give Today and Co. an excuse to add more calcs to the game.

I can see there would be some problems with having an actual trajectory though. You could a) make them only buildable outdoors...but that screws the fortress for having big interior defenses with them. It's more realistic though, by a long shot. A second solution is to just have stones magically appear around your designated target area, after a short delay. That works for the mechanics, and satisfies DF's 2-d requirements. (In 3-d, you expect midair collision. In iso and 2d, not so much.)

Lists
This game more than any other I've ever played could benefit from stat dumps in-game. I know there are limitations to that sort of thing, like doing charts and graphs would be iffy. But you could even use it as an excuse to create another noble position, akin to what the Treasurer already does. And I NEEDS MY DATAS.

Lists I'd like to see-

-Relationships list. It's a pain in the ass after 50 dwarves to try and view relationships. Sublimate parent/child entries the way Squad leaders and members are displayed.
-Productivity output, per non-enlisted dwarf, per Craft, overall % of ilders per season, all that good stuff. 
-Condensed death history list, including name, profession at death, age at death, time of death, reason for death and killer if applicable. I leave copious notes around my tombs, and this is both time consuming and cluttered.
-Enemy List. I find it hard/awkward to get a handle on the enemies I'm facing sometimes. The extra long Goblin names cause their professions to run off-screen using the "v" key and it's messy as hell when they start stacking. It's tedious to scroll through EVERY entity on the unit list to get to them,  and that's just with ~15 or 20 goblins. Putting all the living, visible opponents on one screen would make things way easier to manage and digest.

Visual overlays
Lists are all fine and dandy to a certain point, but the number of dwarves eventually makes them a pain to navigate and read. Again, there limitations to how much you can do visually but the frame work is already there. The Depot Access overlay already demonstrates how this would work.

-Occupancy/cost overlay. Oh my god, how I want this. It would be helpful when you're creating/assigning rooms in a panic to deal with immigrants, and to get a sense of how income is distributed later on. Rooms that are defined but not owned have their squares flash black/gray. Rooms that are renting for 1-200 would flash green, 201-1000 yellow, 1001-2000+ red, 2000+ white. Rooms that are occupied by nobility/before the economy would flash blue. Bonus points for different modes like craft of occupant, income of owner, item count, ect...

-Traffic Levels Overlay. Not terrible important but again, it's data and data is good. It wouldn't have to dump the pathing explicity, just show where dwarves prefer to walk. It might also help explain to the player visually what their dwarves prefer to do/how their orders are being interpreted.

Notification Options

-I'd like to toggle whether or not I'm notified when a dwarf starts bleeding. Lots of times there's nothing you can do about it (although that may change soon), but as it is now I only know what's happened after someone has bled to death. Leave it on for peace time so you know when stuff is going down, turn it off for wartime.

-I'd like to be notified when a child is actually physically kidnapped. I've had kids get kidnapped and I've only been informed when the kidnapper reaches the edge of the map. If a kidnapper was able to get the child without being seen in the first place, there's little chance I'm going to be able to stop them. But I want to at least know where the kid was kidnapped FROM so I can close that hole in my defenses.

Random stuff

-Secret doors. They're RPG-y, and I'm sort of surprised they aren't in yet. They would be doors that non-thief enemies only have a 20% chance of seeing, unless they see a dwarf come through it. It would require mechanisms to be built, and you the quality of the doors and mechanisms could adjust its chances of being seen up or down. It would be nice to have a different set of doors from your main entrance that you could sally forth from.

It'd also be cool if you could make the door secret from your own dwarves, but that might run afoul of the labor system, since dwarves will go wherever they need to, to complete jobs.

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