Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: atomicwinter on August 19, 2010, 03:24:46 pm

I'm sorry but what the hell is the point of these threads? This is like the other teenage advice ones "Omg like how do I talk to girls! Im socially retarded!". Puberty isn't hard, its a natural change that isn't painful. It might be a good idea to just find out for yourself instead of asking bay12.

Because some of us post-18 people have made mistakes that the OP would rather not repeat, I imagine.  Or perhaps he's hoping to find some people amongst whom he will feel included, welcomed, and understood.

I don't really see what's wrong with it.  People will ask "stupid questions," but there's nothing wrong with seeking out common ground with others.  Soon enough, we'll all find it wasn't such a big deal and we can move on a little bit more.

Plus, you know, you can just ignore the thread.

You, in your last post.

I asked if you thought the cut-scene-NPC-interaction-bits were applicable as gameplay, you said yes, and I disagreed.

I was saying that they were, in the context of Half-Life. I got the impression that you meant it (From your last post) in games in general.

Quote

In the game, I don't feel immersion break because, Oh my god, I'm not shooting these people who are my friends.

You're still thinking far too narrowly here... the FPS genre is a terrible example to use, since pretty much the only thing you can do is shoot things or not shoot things, so you immediately assume that I am talking about shooting or not shooting things. Try to take my argument out of the context of an FPS.

An exaggerated synopsis of what it basically all boils down to "the player does whatever actions, something happens to the player in a segment which is (mostly) non-interactive which has very little relevance to whatever actions, the player does whatever actions, something happens to the player in a non-interactive segment which has very little relevance to whatever actions...". Cue cut-scene/gameplay dissonance. And I've already said that HL2 itself isn't a great example for this sort of thing.

So then why are you choosing to use Half-Life 2 to argue that this is a horrible method of story telling?

As for the non-interactiveness, you do do things in the scenes, nothing huge, but enough to make you a part of it, in the lab, you pull the switch, fix the plug, and go into the teleporter(Apparently Teleporter isn't a word, says my spell-check), in the original you flip the lever for the Anti-mass spectrometer. You aren't talking, obviously, but for me, having to hear someone else's voice come out of your mouth, in that perspective, would kill immersion more. It's not perfect, and while I'd hope that in the future, I could as my speak into a mic and have the characters respond, that's a long way off.

Everything in those scripted events does have a bearing on your gameplay, at least in HL2. It gives you reasons for you to be doing the things you are doing, shooting the dudes you are shooting, and being where you are.

Except
Isn't really a traitor, she gives assistance to both parties at first, and then it seems as if she sides with the resistance, there is no hard evidence to the fact that she is actually working with the combine.

It's definitely up for debate, but as the episodes show, it seems as if she is on Gordon's side.

Sure, if you put everything else aside, Yeah, okay, it breaks down, but the fact is, all those things ARE THERE. You can't just ignore all of them for the purpose of your argument. It doesn't make any sense.

It's like if you strip down everything of the Half-life 2 plot to "Aliens come and invade earth." Yeah, that's really basic, simple, and been done to death, but with everything else that it brings along with it. It works, and quite nicely.

Okay, but you aren't answering any of my questions.

Yeah, it does revolve around shooting, you do that alot. But what you are saying with:

Fundamentally, the player doesn't shoot the characters that advance the story not because he/she doesn't have a reason, but because the characters advance the narrative. They are a necessity. The background story of the characters aside, their relevance in the setting aside, you can't shoot them. In fact, you can't do anything other than follow them around and let them speak at you. And that is part of the issue.

It's a linear game. So, yeah, shooting people who advance the plot is kind of a bad thing, and the other option is putting in a game over screen if you do. I don't see the problem here.

But what I really don't get is why you think there isn't a good reason not to shoot these people. Or why you think the reasons to not shoot these people are not good reason to stop shooting.

Can you give me a reason to shoot Alyx, other than to see what would happen if you did? Can you give me a reason why your character, Gordon, would ever shoot Eli, or Barney?

Say, for example, the mechanic of having scripted encounters with friendly NPC's?

I don't get why having a gun means you always should be shooting. Like, at all. That idea seems preposterous, and I'm glad it mostly died in the 90's. However, I understand why they did it then. I occasionally enjoy mindless shooting, but I do like having games with real stories. If that means I have to not shoot a dude, I'm perfectly fine with that.