Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: doomchild on April 28, 2016, 09:10:39 am

Quote from: Silthuri on April 28, 2016, 09:07:32 am

Quote from: doomchild on April 28, 2016, 08:53:41 am

Quote from: Silthuri on April 28, 2016, 07:20:54 am

EBWOP
Just looked at my wording. That was worded way wrong. I was the one to mention hard to follow. But y'all are still nitpicking as far as I'm concerned.

So how should you have worded it?  I don't think this is nitpicking, I think it's the heart of the entire matter.  We're trying to find scum, and you're acting scummy.

I should have gone more with "faulty logic" or something similar. The nitpicking, mainly from you, includes the fact that you're voting for me because I'm "muddying the waters" What else would you have me do? I am defending myself. I'm failing at it, but if I may, this is the first time I've been under pressure in mafia for decisions I've made.

Also, pfp and going off of 2 hours of sleep. Excuse my stupidity.

As far as I'm concerned, you should be defending yourself.  That's a perfectly acceptable response, and I'm not voting because you're doing it.  I'm voting you because your defense hasn't convinced me, and has, in fact, made me think that you're scum attempting some kind of LYLO gambit.  I don't understand how the timing could look like anything else.

@ bold: I've explained this, I'm fairly certain. I claimed at LYLO because we cannot afford to not lynch scum. If I didn't claim, there was a higher chance we would lynch a townie. I knew there was a high chance for me to die, but my death is worth telling who the scum are and giving you guys another day to try to figure this stuff out. And also perhaps my death would mean more by who was most avidly targeting me for the worst reasons. *wink wink*

How is this an impossible situation? It obviously is legitimate because that's what's happening!

Right, but you could have prevented at least one of the previous town lynches (and gotten scum killed instead!) had you informed us earlier.  Claiming now just looks like an attempt to spew heaps of WIFOM around the place until town isn't sure of anything.  That, to my eyes, is a scum tactic and a half.

EBWOP
Just looked at my wording. That was worded way wrong. I was the one to mention hard to follow. But y'all are still nitpicking as far as I'm concerned.

So how should you have worded it?  I don't think this is nitpicking, I think it's the heart of the entire matter.  We're trying to find scum, and you're acting scummy.

Quote from: doomchild on April 25, 2016, 09:59:47 pm

Quote from: hector13 on April 25, 2016, 05:49:01 pm

See that's the thing though, nobody had to wait for ATH. Could've been questioning other folk.

I'm pretty sure I did question others, so unless this is aimed at someone specific, it feels like a really sideways attack on everyone who isn't you.  Care to be more specific?

Not quite, though I understand how it came across that way.

It was in response to EP's:

Quote from: Elephant Parade on April 25, 2016, 05:47:16 pm

Pardon me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone was saying much late D2? There wasn't that much to say, really; we were all waiting on ATH, who was apparently unable to find anything.

... as ATH is not the only player in the game requiring pressure.

I wasn't doing much myself, but EP offered the same excuse on D2 after being prodded, so the consistency of the "I was waiting on other people" excuse is bothersome.

Who would you say is the person most requiring of pressure, then?  At the moment, I'm thinking it's Silthuri, with the extremely convenient LYLO cop claim.  Who do you want to pressure?

I'm waiting for Silthuri's response on this, but I'm having a hard time imagining what series of events would have kept him from pushing on EP during D2, or outright claiming earlier.

In the meantime, though, I'm curious about this:

See that's the thing though, nobody had to wait for ATH. Could've been questioning other folk.

I'm pretty sure I did question others, so unless this is aimed at someone specific, it feels like a really sideways attack on everyone who isn't you.  Care to be more specific?

Quote from: doomchild on April 15, 2016, 01:05:34 pm

Quote from: doomchild on April 13, 2016, 12:34:23 pm

First off, I think calling all of the votes on snow dwarf a bandwagon is an indirect attack.  Some people might have been bandwagoning, but people choosing independently to vote for the same target is not a bandwagon.  A part of why I took a while to finally put my vote down was because I knew that I would get accused of hopping on the bandwagon, when in fact I had legitimate suspicions.

This still seems to ring true to me, and you didn't really address it at all.

With the "seems like a right answer", I was making a joke on Hector's expense, as he accused me of giving him the "right answers", though I stated them in honesty.

Okay, I can accept that.  It didn't read as a joke to me, so I thought it was some bizarre band of data to which I wasn't privy.

And you didn't answer the second half of my question. Or maybe you did with that deflection at the end:

Quote

I feel like I've been completely open and honest about why I was suspicious of snow dwarf, and I think the only way to make any headway on finding out if there is a scum in the list is for everybody else to do the same.

Like, this is mafia. I can guarantee you that at least two people are lying through their teeth right now. Can you give me a clearer answer as to your tactics? So far, I've started the vote that got Persus (sadly, a townie) lynched, and I've started this run on ATH, who so far still hasn't done enough to shake off my suspicion.

You're right in that my answer was the statement you quoted, although I don't know that I'd call it a deflection.  You asked for a single, concrete solution, and I gave you an answer that was neither of those things, so I guess I can see how you'd view it that way.  If you want a concrete answer, I don't have one.  The only thing I know to do is follow up on things that seem suspicious to me, and the only way that I know how to do that is to poke at things that seem off.  I don't have a finely honed radar for this stuff (I somehow thought I'd be able to discern a lot more), but I'm trying to pay attention to my gut, and then see if I can find things to back up my gut reactions.  Right now, that largely involves reading through ATH's past posts, because he just feels really scummy to me, even if I can't fully articulate why.  He's responded pretty much every time someone has questioned him, but his responses have been (usually) short, and haven't always contained much (or any) useful information, so the feeling that he's evading things has gotten stronger over time.

Quote from: doomchild on April 16, 2016, 11:33:01 pm

While I'm waiting on Gentlefish to respond to my post, I've got a question for ATH:

Why, exactly, did you vote for snow dwarf?  What, specifically did you find scummy?  How did it make you feel?  Be as specific as possible.

I voted him because he was the one that stood out. That is as specific as it gets. Not really sure how this is a difficult concept, but it appears I have entered into the Master Level English courses, where I must make sure my sources are properly cited for the dissertation that I'm writing about how I voted someone that was scummy and then proceeded to act more scummy after being voted.

No, but you have reached the Master Level course where we recognize the target of a particular question.  I'm glad you answered, though.

Asking really specific questions is the only way I know to play this.  At this point, I have suspicions, but nothing concrete, and the deadline is looming.  ATH looks scummy, you look evasive, EP looks absentee, and hector looks like he's flailing.  Right now, the only means I have of getting more information is one vote and a lot of questions.  If that makes me a doctorate-level dork, so be it.

Quote from: Gentlefish on April 12, 2016, 07:05:24 pm

Here's a list of whom voted for snow dwarf, in order so far as I can tell:
Gentlefish, webadict, AbstractTraitorHero, doomchild, Persus13

Time to hunt for the bandwagoniers!

DoomChild:
You've had reasoned suspicions for snow, and voted him when he offered the idea that maybe he -was- mafia. Your vote -seems- right, but if I take a page out of Hector's book () that does make me feel a little uncomfortable. Do you think it's likely that someone whom voted for snow dwarf is mafia? How do you plan on rooting them out?

First off, I think calling all of the votes on snow dwarf a bandwagon is an indirect attack.  Some people might have been bandwagoning, but people choosing independently to vote for the same target is not a bandwagon.  A part of why I took a while to finally put my vote down was because I knew that I would get accused of hopping on the bandwagon, when in fact I had legitimate suspicions.

Secondly, this whole "that seems right, and therefore it must be scummy" thing has me really confused.  So, I'm being attacked for following up on what I and others perceive as scummy behavior?  That mindset seems to imply that townies should play their cards close to the vest, which I think is a big mistake.  The mafia has the advantage when nobody acts openly, because suspicion brews fast and hot in that kind of environment.

Finally, coming from a purely statistical point of view, it seems reasonably likely to me that at least one scum was in the list of snow dwarf voters.  We know Persus13 was town, so that leaves the other 4.  I feel like I've been completely open and honest about why I was suspicious of snow dwarf, and I think the only way to make any headway on finding out if there is a scum in the list is for everybody else to do the same.

Gentlefish, in case it wasn't obvious, I was hoping for some answers to this stuff, particularly the "seems right" part.