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Messages - TurnpikeLad

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31
I must say I like this idea. 100 lives means that you'll have a good chance to get to endgame, but you won't specifically blitz there by doing 1000 dungeon runs that you have barely a chance to survive, or quests you have to die 10 times to complete one of. Honestly, I like this whole setup, except for a few things, which I must admit are the munchkin part of my brain screaming at me.

It is a low magic game, except, things like pixies will be involved, at least as a planned feature, and they can fly. How will flying be balanced against not flying? You said that they'd be extremely weak, but, 10 pixies with shortbows up 100 feet raining down arrows on a settlement would be very hard to kill, especially if they kept the sun at their backs. As for the rest, this also sounds VERY open to Goon (TM) style griefing seen in EVE, wherein several dozen plus players all log in, get the minimum required stuff to be reasonably effective in a fight, and just swarm everything. With full loot, every kill, the swarm would get stronger and harder to off, especially since, with the 100 lives, they'd just loot each other, wait for respawn, and give the gear back. Combine that with pixies, and you'd have the potential for a really big issue.

Haha, I guess that is an issue!  Since other races besides humans aren't planned for initial release, these features haven't been hammered out too well.  But to some extent, that kind of asymmetry was a central part of ToA's initial lineup of races.  Some races would be able to do things and execute tactics that simply aren't available to other races.  If you want to fight the pixie swarm, you'd better have pixies of your own, or races like gryphons, gargoyles or dragons that also can fly.... or a mage that can direct AoE spells upwards.

I mean, what you described doesn't sound like an exploit... it sounds like a great battle plan for a band of pixie warriors.

One small thing that somewhat hampers the tactic you described is that once races are introduced, gear will be race-specific: only humans will be able to wear human gear, for example.  So unless the pixie swarm is killing a whole bunch of pixies, they won't be getting extra gear from their kills.

32
Some news!  An article on the permissions system, where you can set stuff up so that people have permission to affect it:

http://trialsofascension.com/news/permission-system

And an interesting clarification on the Trials of Ascension reputation system, which now respects characters in disguise.  When someone commits a crime against you, you'll be able to mouse over them and choose whether or not to give a report against them... that character will then get negative rep with your settlement, plus the settlement where the crime was committed, if it was within a settlement's boundaries.  If you saw someone commit a crime in disguise, you can report their disguised identity, which will accumulate reputation just like a character. I think the changes are for the better!

http://trialsofascension.com/forum/threads/design-changes.1157/

33
Title changed to reflect the discussion in this thread...

34
Even though it's not H&H style permadeath, your character will still eventually die permanently.... if you want to be super precise, you could call it "permadeath over time" :)

Neonivek, I assume you're talking about SWG when you mention games that had to remove permadeath.  Permadeath in SWG was just for one class, and it was for a class that you had to spend months grinding to even get into.  I can understand why it was unpopular!  Even for a great game, you have to design the whole thing around permanent death if you want it to work.

As you've observed, Trials of Ascension has kind of a weak version of permanent death... and has designed the whole game around "permadeath over time".  I think it has a good chance at actually being an engaging and rewarding game mechanic!

Hey, I really liked the concept of, say, Wurm or HnH... just without some of the drab, brutal grinding. I don't know whether the Hero engine is suited to it or the dev team can pull it off, but they promise roughly Mount & Blade style combat which would be really interesting to see.

I have to admit that it is always the grinding aspect that KILLS pernament death. It takes so long to have someone able to access the end game content (which for EVERY MMO EVER is the best content) that you chose to take less risk and grind very slowly.

Trials of Ascension is doing its best to try to make the non-endgame content just as fun as the endgame content... because after all, people will be spending most of their time as non-maxed out characters!  Even low-skilled characters can make real contributions to a settlement and real changes to the world.

35
Every time I see a permadeath game, I make the mistake of thinking it sounds fun, only to discover that it never is.

I decided after Wizardry Online to stop making that mistake, so I can't see supporting or playing this myself.

I agree that the permadeath games that have actually released (how many have there been?  H&H, Salem, Wizardry... I guess Dofus had that heroic server..) have been flawed and mostly unfun.  I don't think that's the fault of the permadeath though... i think it's because those games were broken in other ways.  ToA could definitely fall prone to the same shortcomings, but I don't think that permadeath would necessarily make that happen.  Anyway, ToA's lite version of permadeath, although a simple concept, really hasn't been tried in a released game... we'll see how it does.  I have high hopes.

36
How names work is that instead of each character having a single name that everyone can see, you'll have to name characters according to what they tell you their name is, or what you want to call them so that you can remember who they are.  Floating names aren't visible if you just look at someone, but if you mouse over or click on someone within a certain distance from your character, you'll see the name you gave that character pop up. 

It's an interesting system... a big component of stealth in the game is supposed to be actual hiding and camouflage, so having a big glowing name above you kind of gives you away in that circumstance.  Also, only knowing the name you give someone means that you have to take someone's word for who they are, what their affiliations are, etc.  I believe the disguise skill is still in (it may have been cut)... where you can try to make yourself look like a stranger, so that people lose their name associations with you while you're disguised.

If you break a settlement's laws inside the settlement's boundaries, you get a rep hit with that settlement, which is visible to people who look at you regardless of whether they know your name.

The old design had a doppelganger race that could make itself look like any other race... you would lose your name association with a doppelganger if they changed their appearance.  Doppelgangers may still be a long-term goal, so the naming system is still there to support that as well.

38
Aaaand another dream project. It's kinda sad that we can't have a simple HnH clone with realistic goals, finite development times and sane developers, and instead get all this bloated crap with tons and tons of promised features and nothing done beyond a couple of screenshots that are made of generic. :-/

Well, it's a lot less of a dream project than it was ten years ago... pretty much everything has been pared down to a form that they are pretty confident they can release if they get kickstarter money.


Amazing line up of races. At first it'll just be humans but there will be a few as kickstarter goals. There are like 12 total races and each one is actually a race not just a skin.  For example Pixies can usually get one or two shot but they're small, they can fly, and use different pixie dusts. Dragons are very powerful but they start as baby hatchings that have to survive for a long time before they're grown. Dragons could basically be like raid bosses because their scales will be very valuable. Dragon hunting ftw.  Gryphons, Centaur, Raknar (spiders), dwarves, Gargoyles etc. Races all have different diets, some more resistant to heat / cold or whatever / some food is poisonous while to others beneficial. Some races can act as mounts for other players. Lots of stuff to this game.


Well, all of those cut features are intended to go back in at some point.... races, religion, boats, mounts... but I didn't want to emphasize them because they won't be in the basic, pared down kickstarter proposal.  Some races will probably appear as stretch goals though.. 

39
Actually, I also wish the game would have less lives.  I'm a fan of one-death permadeath.  There's nothing like going out in the world knowing that _any_ day could be your last.

In the past they mentioned that they might set up a one-life server for people who wanted to live in that kind of world.

But I also see how 100 lives serves their design.  For one, it allows you to die a few times due to lag or internet loss, or other RL circumstances.  100-death permadeath still does a lot of good permadeath things, like reducing high-end character bloat, affecting how people think about risk, fostering community.

Also, as Naturale said, 100 is a number that will be adjusted during testing.  The goal is to give characters enough lives so that they can have enough time in the world to participate in unique ways - so that each character's life is a unique story - but still be close enough to expiring that the game never functionally feels like a game without permadeath.  The number will be adjusted based on how frequently people end up dying... in a game like Wurm, I can imagine the number being scaled to 10 or 20.

40
Great post  :) !   Hope people check it out!

Don't mind Gassy, he's quite nice if you can stand the.. periodic.. miasma...

41
Hey folks,

There's this game I used to follow.  I heard about it 10 years ago when it started development.  I was a fan until they closed shop in 2006 due to lack of investment money... but now the developers are back, developing a pitch for their imminent Kickstarter campaign.  Let me tell you why I love...

Trials of Ascension

Trials of Ascension aims to be a dynamic world, driven by the actions of the players, where every character has a unique story with a beginning and an end.  It has sandboxy features like skill-based character advancement, full loot PvP and player-driven economy and politics: a system where all items are player-made, (using an extensive crafting system) and all settlements are player-run.  But I think it stands apart even from other sandbox games like Darkfall, Mortal Online and EVE online, because of a bevy of unique features.  Here are a few:

Permanent Death  [See article here]

In ToA, each character has 100 lives.  Then that's it.  This feature keeps many from even considering investing any time in the game, but I think it's the most important feature of the game, the one that makes everything work.  Permanent Death has been tried only a handful of times in an MMO, and never in a game that wasn't hampered by numerous other gamebreaking issues.  As the developers explain in the linked article, permanent death changes the way you play the game.  Particularly, it changes the decision-making calculus that precedes any risk you take.  Night is approaching.. do you circle your caravan and fortify for bandit attack, or do you press on, torches in hand, hoping to reach your destination before you are waylaid?  So much more rides on every choice.  It makes the game come alive.. defeats hurt more, but you can be so much more proud of your successes!

Also, permanent death kind of removes the focus from an individual character - who will eventually pass on - and shifts emphasis to communal endeavors that will live on, like settlements or player projects.  Community is a necessity in a game with permanent death.

There are many other arguments for and against permanent death.. this is just the perspective that inspires me most.

Dynamic Ecology and spawns.

Creatures and plants won't appear at set spawn points, but will spawn throughout suitable environments based on ideal totals for that biome.  Plants and trees are harvestable..  and creatures will act in accordance with the situation, prey animals running away, pack animals avoiding you if they're not hungry or if they don't have advantage in numbers.  GMs can place special spawns that develop over time... for example, an orc scouting group, which if not checked will soon become a camp, then a small base with a warleader, then start raiding nearby villages.  Dungeons are also placed in the world by GMs, and change over time as they are delved into (for example, you might find an unexplored cave one day and empty it of monsters, taking home a small haul of precious stones... then the next person in the cave might find the ceiling collapsed, opening up a passage down to an old temple filled with inscriptions that they can copy down and get translated.)  The goal is to allow GMs to actively provide a dynamic experience for the players where the world is changing daily.

Innovations  [See article here]

While practicing a skill, characters have a very small chance to discover an innovation to that skill.  Innovations are new techniques or new craftable items that, once discovered, are removed from the available pool: only one character can discover a certain innovation.  Once you've discovered an innovation, you can choose to keep it to yourself, or teach it to whomever you want... but be aware that anybody to whom you teach it can spread the knowledge further!  This is one of my favorite ideas in ToA; innovations will introduce some real differences between settlements and set some fun politics in motion.  (Spies... trade deals... resource wars!)  Innovations are also an organic way to introduce new features to the game... boats, carts, siege weapons, these things can be discovered and disseminated by player characters rather than suddenly being available to everyone via a game expansion.

Magic  [See article here]

Magic is not just another character path in ToA.  Trials of Ascension offers players a bargain: High power comes with high risk.  A skilled and lucky mage can destroy a rank of warriors.. but you must fight for that skill tooth and nail, wresting knowledge of arcane sigils and spells from eldritch beasts.  Also, the more powerful the spell, the more skill it takes to be reasonably certain that it won't backfire, potentially immolating the caster and her friends.  The system is designed so it takes both luck and skill to become a master mage without permanently dying on the way... most will not make it.  The same higher reward= higher risk equation carries through the whole game.  In the same way that it feels better to have a high-level character in Nethack than in WoW, the rewards that accrue to your character are meaningful because you fought for them tooth and nail, against the odds.

Trials of Ascension is just beginning to ramp up for their Kickstarter, which will begin in the coming months once they've got some more interest.  There's not much media yet, but they're using the HeroEngine and have already started limited development once more. I hope you guys will check the game out, even if one or two features strike you as being totally unreasonable.  I think the developers have done a good job of putting together a cohesive design that's more than the sum of its parts.

More articles:

Interrogation
Healing
Navigation
Mining
Structures

Settlements series:

42
DF General Discussion / Re: Hello, have one question.
« on: June 29, 2012, 02:22:40 pm »
Don't reactions already have the capacity to make fractional products: for example, smelting galena yields some small part of a bar of lead, which stays in the smelter until there's enough to make a bar at which time the smelter produces a bar of lead.

If so, then it's easy: make reactions at the forge or kiln produce 1/5 or so of a bar of ash if they require charcoal.  This would reflect the fact that ash production isn't the main purpose of those buildings... and that charcoal (I think?) produces less ash when burned than wood.  Also, since you're never getting _very much_ ash, there's still a purpose for the wood burner's ash job if you want to make a lot of it for some reason.

43
DF General Discussion / Re: DF needs a booth at PAX
« on: April 09, 2012, 02:36:23 am »
Seriously. I think if we got a booth space, plane tickets for Toady and Tarn, and set something up, it would be great for DF's publicity. It's popular among hardcore and niche gamers, and it's legendary among developers, but I think a booth would do wonders. I know Toady doesn't do the whole commercial bit, but I think having T-shirts would be great. Give out free CDs burned with a DF installer and a guide, maybe? A wiki mirror and some of the better video tutorials? Let people meet Tarn? Have us more rabid fans hanging around the booth to answer questions and talk about the game? Giant poster in the background with epic ASCII depictions of fortresses? Let fan-staff bring in their computers so people can see and play DF? There's a lot we could do, folks, and I'd kill to be able to staff a DF booth as a knowledgeable fan/question answerer/coffee and soda retriever/whatever, even if it meant missing out on other stuff at PAX.

Ideas?

I'd love that... I would probably want to find a way to come to PAX this year if there were a DF booth / panel / freeplay space.

44
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: November 29, 2011, 02:15:14 am »
Not really a question for Toady, but I hope that Dwarven farming gets some revisions soon, because it's super strange seeing these authentically gigantic fields and pastures around NPC settlements and then founding a fort and being able to feed all 200 of your dwarves on a few 5x5 plots.

45
DF General Discussion / Re: Real-life HFS... for honeybees
« on: November 09, 2011, 03:41:41 am »
Hah, you're right... I kept thinking, "now only if they had outfitted those soldier bees in full adamantine gear, they could have stood a chance.."

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