Bay 12 Games Forum

What about the usage of traffic zones? I think those are still around in .31.xx.

Traffic zones will kind of work, but would not solve the problem completely.

Even a "restricted" zone will be walked on if there is something inside the zone that a dwarf wants to do (like pick up some goblin armor or something.)

I think forbidding ice walking with the "o" menu is a great idea. It should be very easy to implement.

994. The music is also written and played by the programmer.
993. Scamps!!
992. Catsplosions
991. Thermonuclear catsplosions
990. Entire dwarven economies based around the butchering of kittens/puppies

Other issues: It would really be much simpler to simulate sand with depths ranging from zero to *three* rather than seven. It would make it very clear what each depth means (zero is no sand, one is walkable, two is a ramp, three is a wall)

I like that, it's far simpler. But it has a crippling impossibility, which is that sand and water are bound to meet up sometime, and 1/3 and 1/7 are completely incompatible. Allow me to demonstrate...

I think I will check to see if this is an eternal suggestion voting item, and if it isn't I'm going to make one (can I do that?). EDIT: done! Give it some votes!

I voted. : D

Something else to add:
Water should probably be able to push sand around, especially fast-moving water. It might be a headache to code that, though.

Also, a slip face difference of 3/7 would be a bit steeper and more realistic than 2/7, as is shown in my animation.

The whole thing with cave-ins is one of the many reasons why I'm glad it's not ME programming this game. I woudln't know where to start... you don't want to allow ridiculous constructions, (I once built an aqueduct with no supports) and yet you don't want the mining to go super-slow while it checks for everything.

I don't fully understand your idea here, but if the cave-in checks are a localized thing, then perhaps they won't take up so much processing power after all. On the other hand, every time I channel upwards with ramps, the game lags like hell trying to determine what it should do with the other ramps in a tiny 3x3 square.

My only comment would be that I think it should be a bit more lenient than 7x7. Already, we have natural caverns which exceed 7x7:



When I first saw the caverns, I got the impression that Toady was going to be more generous when the time came to add the cave-ins.

Obviously, we wouldn't want for such a thing to cave in on embark. And you wouldn't want it to be artificially supported with a kind of "if the terrain exists already, it will not collapse" type of thing. -- you're saying that a multi-level domed ceiling would prevent this? I guess that makes sense - however, it would also allow atrocities like this:



Seems like you'd need a bit more code. I have no idea what that'd be, though...

EDIT: Actually, I just got an idea. Perhaps, every single solid tile would have two variables - compressive strength and tensile strength. As you mine beneath something, these variables are deducted from until one of them reaches zero. Then, perhaps after a warning, the structure would collapse.
In my silly picture above, the problem is not compressive strength, but rather TENSILE strength. Alternatively, if you have a heavy thing perfectly balanced on a single tile, but that tile is made from soap or dirt or something, it would be the compressive strength variable that would reach zero.
This system would NOT work without a brilliant and simple way to know which tiles should be receiving which deductions, however... a system which I doubt could ever exist...

Also:

Really, guys? You think it would be CPU-intensive? That would be a perfectly good reason to leave it out... however, I don't think it would be any more intensive than the regular water physics.

Have you ever had a lake with a single 1/7 missing, and you've got this ridiculous 6 which zips around the lake of 7's, trying to find a 1/7? That kind of thing is always running calculations, and slows down the CPU. With sand, however, that wouldn't happen. You wouldn't have to be constantly calculating anything, unless you're actively taking out sand (similar to the way you can channel upwards with ramps - it only calculates stuff one a ramp has been removed).

Of course, I have no idea how the fluid system works. And yeah, there might be some impossibilities when trying to combine a 3/7 sand and 4/7 water onto the same tile.

Tarn has commented a few times on DF talk that it's kind of absurd to think you could build a fortress, or indeed anything, out of sand.
Mining through sand, I noticed that the walls stay as rigid as any stone. I have a suggestion for sand physics which I believe can easily be implemented with just a few changes to the existing fluid system.

I don't know how to explain it, so I animated it instead:



Basically, while water stops flowing once it has leveled out, sand would stop flowing once it has reached it's "slip face." This would be a difference in elevation of, say, 2 or 3 levels. Get it?

Looking at my own animation, though, it's kind of silly to think that a miner could use a PICK on sand to make it DISAPPEAR. Instead of mining sand, perhaps you could designate a sand collecting zone, and the sand would be "mined out" by being placed into bags. Each bag would hold... 1/7 sand? Perhaps 7/7 sand? I'm not sure. I imagine it should be 7/7, considering you can make a full glass wall with it.

Additionally, this method of modeling sand could have interesting and fun interactions with water. Now, if sand is made to displace water, you could have full-fledged beaches!



If sand is able to displace water, you could have all sorts of fun... you would be able to move an entire subterranean lake up to the surface simply by pouring sand into it!

You could also have... sand dunes!



The only problem with this system is figuring out where to place the dwarves if they're climbing around on sand. I think it would be reasonable to place a dwarf on the bottom tile if standing on 3/7 sand, and on the top tile if standing on 4/7 sand. It's not perfect, and I'm not sure how this might mess up other interactions, but I think it just might work.

And how cool would it be to make a giant hourglass, or sand traps?

What do you guys think?

Is there any way to get him something to drink, or is he destined to die?
...
In either case, it seems like this might be a great concern as my fort matures if I'm not able to obtain any water for injured dwarves.

Yup, he's destined to die. Right now I'm playing a fort that has no water AND no trees. I've had to do things I'm not proud of that are hilarious. You can even read about it all here: http://dfstories.com/?cat=3

Something I noticed recently, though, is that as long as they're still alive, even if they're dehydrated, dwarves can heal from serious injuries when the season changes. Your dwarf may yet recover.