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Messages - iceball3

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226
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: May 04, 2017, 05:04:26 am »
Does artifact theft, looting, etc take into account whether the artifact is currently utilized in a building construction? (A crucial artifact floodgate, for instance.) A question both for how raiders will handle this behind-the-scenes, and when they eventually turn up to take try to diplomatically/forcefully take that artifact floodgate burried deep in the earth and surrounded by lava.
Is/will the accessibility of the artifact within a site (behind walls, etc) be taken into account, either?
What happens to an artifact mission when the artifact is atom-smashed or something similar? Do artifacts generate historical logs about their destruction by these means?

227
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 28, 2017, 06:06:02 pm »
I guess I meant it was less of a new list of things to research, and more just a list of subjects that'd possibly exist because the phenomena is already part of the natural world, for our dwarves. You do have a point, though.

228
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 27, 2017, 06:15:08 pm »
The topics system as it exists, while a placeholder, does give a good preview of what functional systems our dwarves will pursue knowledge in in future implementations. However, it seems a lot of topics are comprehensive in the context of the real world, and do not much touch the fantasy word dwarves live in. Will there be expansion to cover more esoteric topics as systems and  "lore" becomes more developed and set in stone, or are such subjects considered "off limits" for dwarven philosophers and scientists alike?

Such subjects include regional alignment, regional emission epidemiology (evil rain, vapors, etc), meta-anthropology (beastmen of any type as well as other similarly esoteric humanoids),
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
subterranean biology, applied theology (concerning curses), mythological biology (megabeasts), diverse anthropology (goblins, humans, elves, etc), and many more I haven't accounted for, noting that the above list covers either currently existing or planned features rather than being new ideas.

229
I am not sure, some experimenting would be done for sure, but one way to check might involve checking for arousal in a dwarf's reaction to poetry/singing. This only applies if the reaction actually takes into account dwarven sexuality, though.

230
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 25, 2017, 04:13:25 am »
I imagine that different secrets could use "thralls" (not DF thralls), "homunculi", etc as a reraisable non-hostile and rather combat ineffective creature as a placeholder to allow different kind of secret-wielding wizards in this version without explicitly being necromancy, so long as you can trick the game into thinking those creatures count as zombies for tower-creation. Not sure, though.
Why would you need a placeholder magic system when magic is about to get a massive overhaul? You don't need to trick the system, just change it.
From a modding point of view, for now, i mean. A workaround that modders can probably do presently until magic actually gets it's overhaul in a year or three.

231
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 25, 2017, 02:00:04 am »
I imagine that different secrets could use "thralls" (not DF thralls), "homunculi", etc as a reraisable non-hostile and rather combat ineffective creature as a placeholder to allow different kind of secret-wielding wizards in this version without explicitly being necromancy, so long as you can trick the game into thinking those creatures count as zombies for tower-creation. Not sure, though.

232
Mind that i've been stating these in the context of the fact that dwarf mode, and sites in general, have personal sovereignty, and looking forward from the current framework, unless you made your site under the specific direct authority of another site (unlikely, Slaves to Armok and all).

I imagine there could be specific embark modes and scenarios, but what i'm stating is an actual outright functioning fortress could, at some point during their flourishing, decide to build mass-prison facilities and begin make diplomatic discussions with groups who need the prison space.
Saying that you "lose the fortress" outright in this instance because it's both illegal and unpleasing to your head civilization is completely out of question with how Dwarf Fortress is to be played, it's like getting an instant game over screen if you dump a dwarven caravan into a magma pool out of spite or whatnot.

If your parent civilization wants to shut down the site, I'd like to see them try. Actually try. Insurrection, siege, withdrawl of funding, etc. And whether they consider this in their interest to even bother due to outstanding wars is also another question, too, considering that with enough social isolation and management to prevent insurrections, careful or hermetic defense setups, and the like, the player generally is (and probably should be) capable of defending themselves for quite some time, even with new siege diggers, given enough preparation, and fortresses are often able to dig their heels in well enough with enough farming set up or large enough stockpiles.

If the prisoners riot, then your control of the fortress is basically considered by what dwarves you have alive. If all of your dwarves are captured, defect, or are killed, then you get a lose the game, practically like you normally would.


I had figured that prison sites weren't -just prisons-, but rather, nominally, a normal dwarven fortress, by gameplay and situation standards, however, with the exception of:
-Implicit specialization by the player to construct prison spaces and to buy/grow enough of their food to support prisons. This isn't strictly necessity, either way you cut it, but hinders the latter point if you don't do it.
-Contractual agreement with other civilizations or groups, or on your own auspicions (if applicable), to import prisoners.

If prison starting scenario means we are just going to get prisoner contracts, then why not just have us build the prisons ourselves in the normal fashion in a normal site and then have nearby sites respond to our large, spacious prisons by sending us prisoner contracts.  Having prison fortresses function in gameplay terms identically to regular fortresses makes the whole idea completely redundant, I think the idea of starting scenarios is that they have defined citizen statuses, so guard VS prisoner determining gameplay options. 
Like i've said, imprisonment offers would not be strictly scenario-only. You would be allowed to show off your prison spaces to diplomats, or diplomats could get the good idea of asking for said offer, and such agreements would be handled similar to how diplomacy currently works.

Then we have a list of local citizen statuses that are found only in the starting scenario itself.  In this case the guard status has no requirements, save not being a prisoner, meaning that everybody who freely immigrates into a prison fortress automatically becomes a prison guard, even if they are not presently doing any guarding.  What makes the scenario a challenge is that the guards do not work as discussed above, forcing us to use the prisoners as labour; which means we cannot simply leave them in their cages.  However with non-civ level citizen statuses it would be possible to set a timer on their implementation, so it is 6 months into the starting scenario not immediately that our dwarves become officially guards and stop working, hence some of them can build the prison.
Forcing statuses like this is particularly the reason why I'm suggesting against scenario-mode-locked prison fortresses. Normal player made fortresses can do the job well enough with less than half of their population being in the military, anyway, no?

233
I've had modest success doing the following:

First: Set up restricted traffic zones inside of and one-tile outside of the fortifications (so that they cover the fortifications and the air tile outside).

Second:  Set the interior of the tower (where you want your marksdwarves to stand) as a high traffic area.

You'll need some ceiling access for the dwarves.  I saw a subjective drop in monkey marksdwarves after doing that.

You can also try using wall grates as fortifications instead of constructing fortifications.  If the problem is with them dodging through fortifications, wall grates might act different since it's considered a building and not a construct.  Haven't tried this one myself, but I'm going to try it with my next defense tower.  The downside being that flying building destroyers can knock those down.
That, and I'm pretty sure wall grates don't stop ranged weapons.
I do wonder if a wall great outside of a fortification would quell those issues, though I imagine it'll reduce the downward line of site significantly.

234
I had figured that prison sites weren't -just prisons-, but rather, nominally, a normal dwarven fortress, by gameplay and situation standards, however, with the exception of:
-Implicit specialization by the player to construct prison spaces and to buy/grow enough of their food to support prisons. This isn't strictly necessity, either way you cut it, but hinders the latter point if you don't do it.
-Contractual agreement with other civilizations or groups, or on your own auspicions (if applicable), to import prisoners.

If your prison fails spectacularly, the consequences will simply be diplomatic and monetary ones as you don't get prisoners from anyone who isn't actively trying to simply get rid of them anymore, with the included side consequences of criminals roaming the countryside from any escapees and the danger it directly poses to your dwarves. However, your fortress, position, etc still exist.

The idea I'm trying to posit is that a fortress which keeps prisoners should do so in the same manner it keeps prisoners of war from sieges, only with the added diplomatic obligations for any re-compensation it gets from taking prisoners from other sites. Failing that diplomatic obligation should be considered on the same gameplay level as breaking elven treaties to not cut wood, for instance.

I can imagine an interesting scenario being that you take a large amount of prisoners, some being high-profile political or royalty that a group would rather not martyr. A particularly bad prison break makes the sites that made these agreements  with you severely doubt your competency to oversee, prisons, and for the high profile political prisoners, a site sends out a diplomat with armed escort to make demands, potentially deliver an ultimatum if the situation is -really- bad.

235
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 21, 2017, 09:23:01 pm »
What's the point of being able to spit on people if you can't spit specifically in their eye?
Make sure you do it with a good archery skill, or you might accidentally spit in their mouth instead.

236
For micro-burrowing, do you put their workshops near their bedrooms?  Don't you have noise problems from beds being too close to a workshop, or did that stop being true at some point?

Apparently it's no longer a thing, and nor is a "drafty fortress". It has influenced my construction ever since though. You could probably date my fort building from the way I dig/build.

Being annoyed at "the draft" referred to a military draft, not a windy draft.
I confess that in my early years of DF, this is what i thought it meant, too, luckily i learned in my first foray military stuff on a deeper level.

237
Personally, I'd see to think that any fortress prison would operate similar to the normal jails, except with implicit need for permanence and the possibility of hostilities in the event of a prison break.
In such events, I figure the Captain of the Guard and the fortress guard squad they run should be responsible for it, per normal, as to not need to include automagical "even more jailers" jobs. Feeding can be handled by Feed/Water prisoners job, as per normal, or via an automatic system if the player's got that set up.

In terms of escapees, I figure that when trying to escape, or considering, even, they should consider their options, and in the event of objective hopelessness (trapped at the bottom of a smoothed out 20 story pit, in which food is dropped down via drawbridge (heuristically speaking, the prisoner will see themselves as trapped in a massive stone sarcophagus in which food and drink occasionally randomly appears), then the prisoner may submit completely to the prospect of any sort of realistic escape plan.
In the event of some combination of sheer hopelessness, or the prisoner being deprived of social contact for far too long, and poor living conditions, it may be possible for the prisoner to go insane, which would make keeping them alive a bit more difficult, to say the least.

238
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 21, 2017, 01:31:41 pm »
Aiming personal missile throwers
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Joking aside, it'll probably be saved for when another combat rework/update rolls out, and will probably be in the vein of "very inaccurate called shot, unless the target is completely vulnerable and still" or "aim center mass for increased chance to hit".

239
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: Is the civil war bug still in?
« on: March 20, 2017, 11:31:19 pm »
In recent versions I have gotten loyalty cascades (or something like them) from my militia killing a tantruming dwarf.

Dwarf X fails a mood and goes berserk. Militiamen A through F show up, and A kills X. Suddenly, my entire militia is fighting each other. Then, the fighting seemed to stop at a random point, and A through D are still alive. No further problems. This doesn't match my understanding of what a loyalty cascade is, especially since A (who killed X) is still alive with no problems.

This might be interactions with the "levels of combat" system; The militia might have not been fighting at no quarter, and the remaining dwarves may have lost the will to keep fighting after enough casualties were sustained.
Did any laws get considered broken by your justice system?

240
DF General Discussion / Re: Future of the Fortress
« on: March 20, 2017, 11:27:45 pm »
Oh heavens I never knew how badly I wanted minecart powered fortress ejection seats.
For my amusement -
The Dwarven Bridge: Minecart ramps with rollers.
The Dwarven Drawbridge: a deluge of minecarts that flow out in a single cardinal direction. It fills up a 1 tile sliver of empty space through a crevasse, down to the bottom, with minecarts stacked one on top of the other. Individuals walk along the topmost minecarts to cross. Individuals caught below it are crushed by the weight of 50+ minecarts. The bridge is retracted by a chute down below opening up and rollers shoving each row of carts into it as they fall upon it.

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