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Messages - Andrew425

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526
General Discussion / Re: Zombie Survival
« on: November 02, 2011, 06:50:07 pm »
.308 with twelve hundred rounds.

I'm set. All I need to do is board up the windows and doors, fill the bathtubs and sinks with water, bring in some firewood and nothing can get me.

527
Mafia / Re: Beginner's Mafia XXVIII - D2 - Passing [6/7, 1/2, 1/1]
« on: November 02, 2011, 06:24:37 pm »
I'm going to vote for an Extend so everyone can weigh into the conversation

I've been going through the chat extensively and I think Caz is scum

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Honestly I suspect Andrew425 more but don't want to be seen as 'joining the bandwagon'.

That to me seems like Caz is trying to act like town which is making him scummy.

Remalle's logic seems kinda scummy as well, a simple comment about how you were softballing a question to another guy and you get all riled up about it. All your other stuff in your post is you trying to bullshit your way through it and how I didn't answer your questions right away when I had already explained my reasoning to shark.

Remalle I've got my eye on you.

528
General Discussion / Re: Accurate, orderly dating system
« on: November 01, 2011, 03:12:26 pm »
Why would you start the new year when the world is dying?

Why not start it during its symbolic rebirth? (Spring)

529
Mafia / Re: Beginner's Mafia XXVIII - D2 - Passing [6/7, 1/2, 1/1]
« on: October 31, 2011, 05:38:37 pm »
Yay a book to read!


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Do you have any suspicions other than the obvious one? Trying to pretend you're interested in scumhunting without committing?

I do in fact, I will get to my suspicions below.

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What's your read on Remalle?  You've gone back and forth with him a lot, but I can't see an opinion of him in your words.

I think he has been playing a pretty good job at looking town, though his latest post
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but I'm going after Andrew right now so it doesn't really matter to me.
Worries me. I don't think the town should ever stop scumhunting even if you're sure you've found one.

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Andrew425 - You unvoted drakon136 because he posted that he did defend himself, that he was afraid of being lynched, that he thinks everyone should be afraid of being lynched, and asking you what is scummy about defending your reputation over actually trying to find scum. What?

I had held my vote on Drakon largely because he was inactive. He had posted a few times then went silent after everyone voted for him. For him to show up and start talking when he didn't have to because he wasn't pressured much is a pretty good indication in my mind that he is probably town.

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All you've done is make a token vote for drakon136 and then quickly withdrew it.

Caz Your recent posts have me suspicious, why would I be on the same team as drakon when he very nearly got lynched on the first day? I did have my vote on him then and i've been pestering him to show up.



drakon136 Calling someone to show up when at least 6 other posts have done so already seems scummy when that is the only thing you're adding to the conversation.

Shark Everyone thinks that your are the towniest, why do you think that is?

530
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 31, 2011, 01:53:01 pm »
Because in 160 areas, people chose to pick the conservatives over the others.
I'm sorry to bring this up again, but I actually ran the on this for another forum after the last Canadian election.

Data from here.

Of 308 seats, 145 were won with an outright majority (>50%) of the votes. That's roughly 47%, with 53% won with only a plurality.

The Conservatives actually did better than average, holding an outright majority in a full 107 seats of their 160 seat total. But that's still far from them having clear majority support in a majority of wards.

Lowering the threshold, 42 seats were won with less than 40% of the vote (11 Conservative) while two were held with less than a third (Vancouver Centre by the Liberals and Ahuntsic by BQ).

These numbers are pretty good comparatively. In the 2010 UK elections, out of 650 seats, 432 were won with less than 50% of the vote. That's a full two thirds of Parliament, almost exactly. 110 (17%) were won with less than 40% and 10 seats were won with less than a third of votes behind them.

That's why I'm not a fan of FPTP. You can (and commonly do) have well under 50% of the voting public supporting the winning candidate. Even if you agree that you need a single representative for a given population, a representative elected under FPTP was likely dependent on only a minority of that population's support.

Under AV (or IRV; lots of different names for the same thing) a candidate needs at least the consent of 50% + 1 of the voters. They don't have to be their first choice, just ranked above other candidates. AV isn't necessarily more proportional on the national level, but it means the elected individual is more representative and answerable to their constituency.

For Westminster style parliaments it simply makes more sense.

And yes I'm still sore about that referendum.

We maybe should make a seperate thread for this.

I don't see how AV would work for the places were the Conservatives win with 40% of the vote or above. The Liberals and the NDP would just have their vote split more evenly.

Also FPTP promotes regionalism,

531
Mafia / Re: Beginner's Mafia XXVIII - D2 - Passing [6/7, 1/2, 1/1]
« on: October 31, 2011, 01:05:28 pm »
Unvote

Thanks for coming out and talking drakon.

Shoes! get out here!

532
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 31, 2011, 01:33:03 am »
But that way you have people who aren't elected, rather they are chosen by the party.

Where is the accountability in that? What if you only like the leader but dislike the next 10 in line?

533
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 31, 2011, 12:33:10 am »
One vote per person, that's better.

That is exactly WHY we need proportional representation.  Right now the vote of myself and every other voter in Maryland mattered almost not at all because there wasn't a single competitive national election for the House or Senate last election in the entire state of Maryland.  Somebody who lived in the 10% of districts nationwide that we're actually competitive on the other hand had their votes count to determining the direction of the entire country.  In practical terms, I got 0 votes while some people got 10.

That is not 1 man 1 vote.  1 man 1 vote would be that we all get a vote and all of our votes count equally towards determining the composition of congress.

If your aim is for everybody to be equal then FPTP is literally the worst possible system you could dream up short of actually illegal shit like rotten boroughs.

This is what we have right now, with loose districts. PR would just amalgamate the ridings into one giant area which would make our government even more consolidated.

No. It. Would. Not.  It is very simple to combine a proportional representative situation with all the stuff you love.  You get to keep your local representative.  It's just that some additional seats "at large" are created to accommodate voters who's candidates lost.  This isn't complicated and we already explained it to you.

You live in a representative democracy and you vote for the person in your riding. Why should your vote influence the decision of someone in Texas or California? Just because your state isn't a swing state doesn't mean your vote doesn't count.

I really don't understand how you think that you can have a PR system and keep your local representative without losing the power of your vote.

534
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 11:20:46 pm »
Andrew, you still haven't said a single way in which FTPT is better than, say, Approval Voting. In fact, IRV voting would have the same consolidation of power FPTP has - so what, exactly, is your opposition based on?

The fact that you get only one vote and can't dilly dally.

One vote per person, that's better.

People don't vote against a party, they vote for a candidate they think is the best. The fact that the winner didn't get the majority of the votes is inconsequential.

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we want a loose government that can effectively govern wildly disparate areas.

This is what we have right now, with loose districts. PR would just amalgamate the ridings into one giant area which would make our government even more consolidated.

535
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 09:39:32 pm »
Because in 160 areas, people chose to pick the conservatives over the others.


It consolidates power and it gets stuff done unlike Europe which is consistently deadlocked.

And Quebec got screwed, which makes me happy.
No.

In 137ish areas, 40-60% of people chose to pick the Conservatives, and the rest voted against them. 40-60% of people were fucked over entirely. If you call that fair, cool, our definitions are so far apart that we might as well not even further discuss this.

Consolidation of power in Canada is so laughable as to be hilarious. We don't WANT consolidation of power, we want a loose government that can effectively govern wildly disparate areas. Consolidation of power in Canada is possibly the worst thing we could have. It ensures that all of us get screwed over by other places in the country.

However, it does afford me the opportunity to laugh at whichever part of Canada you're in when Quebec resurges (inevitable), and you see that the hammer swings both ways.


When Quebec resurges it will be doing what it always has been doing. Which is screwing over the rest of us. Which is has been since the 50's.

In a majority of places the majority of people voted for a party. That party is now in control, what is wrong with that?

536
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 09:24:22 pm »
Because in 160 areas, people chose to pick the conservatives over the others.


It consolidates power and it gets stuff done unlike Europe which is consistently deadlocked.

And Quebec got screwed, which makes me happy.

537
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 09:04:57 pm »
I guess I should clarify that I live in Canada.

And I like the way it is there, I think they need to do change the electoral college in the states, but I don't think they should change fptp
What? Proportional Representation is the best system for Canada. FPTP has done very little good for us recently.

I would argue the exact opposite. It's done wonders for Canada.


I think the states can make their system work they just need to remove the idea of electoral colleges and go for a straight vote. The one with the most votes is elected president.

538
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 08:39:07 pm »
I guess I should clarify that I live in Canada.

And I like the way it is there, I think they need to do change the electoral college in the states, but I don't think they should change fptp

539
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 07:58:50 pm »
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And besides, unless you are doing a write in candidate, the odds are you are voting on the basis of party nomination anyway in a first past the post system.  So even though you have a 'choice', it's just a choice between two guys.

Yeah but in FPTP you can have accountability, which is better then any other system. Also they are likely to live in your area thus care about your issues.

540
General Discussion / Re: Occupying Wallstreet
« on: October 30, 2011, 05:54:48 pm »
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No that is a lie. You would rather have someone say that because you imagine yourself a, lets say, "Conservative" that you are obligated for AMERICA to vote for this guy.

I would rather vote for a person then a party that chooses someone.

Because if I don't like the person I can change my vote. With PR, you have no say over who is elected or not. None.

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