Bay 12 Games Forum

Fair enough; agreed.

So... memes in general. I think I wrote up a rant about that earlier in the thread, and how destructive they are.


(though I'm still adamant that titles like "brony" aren't positive or negative, but rather neutral descriptors)

I dunno, the guy in the middle looks like he sorta cares. Eyes wide open and all.


I have a friend who uses tildes when she's feeling capricious so I don't really mind them~

Isn't there an extremely strong link between obesity and type 2 diabetes, among other illnesses?


I'll completely accept that doctors will misdiagnose and blame something on obesity when it isn't, but they're just following what they do for any diagnosis: occam's razor. The most obvious problem is probably the cause. Will they be wrong sometimes? Of course. Will they be wrong more often than they should? Maybe, maybe not, and I think that warrants investigation. However, it sure as hell isn't a sign that there's nothing unhealthy or risky about being overweight.

I dunno, a few years of solitary confinement will make anyone go a little nuts.

Not to say I don't agree with you FZ (insanity and corruption are cop-out villain motivations most the time), just that I don't think she was being rational and not just because she was rightfully pissed off.

If breaking this is really your goal, what you should be aiming for is making it law then men need to take at least 6 months off work to care for your children. THEN watch the situation change.

But no, you'd never see anyone pushing for a law like that because it is reasonable, effective (it would actually accomplish the stated goals, and fairly quickly), and justifiable (parents SHOULD have to spend time taking care of their children if they decide to have children).

You have no idea how ecstatic I'd be if something like that were put into effect.

*note to self: get a government job and be a lazy, lazy bum*

Few things, irmo.

This requires world generation, or at least site generation, to arrange things according to metagame concerns: how rewarding and/or challenging is this feature for the player? Which is fine--roguelikes have been doing that for ages, putting shinier loot and tougher monsters at deeper levels of the dungeon. But around here, that suggestion will be met with a lot of snorting about how "gamey" and unrealistic and lacking in Procedural Generation Magic it is*.

Everyone needs to stop whining about that and get behind the idea of an explicit difficulty curve associated with depth. Yes, like the 2d version.

These things don't have to be mutually exclusive. For example, I don't think iron and flux (mainly found in sedimentary layers, near the surface) should be moved further underground simply because steel is the second best metal. All the "real life" stuff can stay simulation. There's room however for "gamey" things with the exotic and fantastical parts of dwarf fortress. Exotic metals have been suggested, which could be found on lower map layers. Another source of valuable material could be from cavern monsters themselves; why couldn't a strange and weird monster's hide from the hidden depths be as strong as steel? Why not make their bones create very strong weapons? Things other than metal are underutilized in DF, I think, so making risks and rewards to flesh out the leatherworking/bone carving/etc industries would be quite interesting.

I note with minor amusement that we've just recapitulated the gamist/simulationist debate in RPG design. So think of it in those terms. If this were a tabletop RPG, the GM could draw a map of the world and randomly choose a location that has a portal to hell. Then you'd point to a spot on the map to build your fortress, and most likely not hit the portal to hell. But that's bad GMing. A good GM will have you pick a location, and then decide that that's where the Hellmouth is.**

So I'd say what we need is a procedural gamemaster: an algorithm that manages the world, or the corner of it where the player is operating, to present challenges and rewards. It doesn't have to be a Hellmouth--I'm all for lost civilizations, forgotten beasts, exotic minerals, and secret networks of dwarven roads. But the game can't just pregenerate a world and then expect me to prospect around for a site that's not boring.

I'm not sure that's the goal with dwarf fortress. From what I've gathered, it's meant to be a world simulator where you make the story. Not a game master (real or procedural).

You're right that you shouldn't have to prospect for a site that's not boring, but if every site has everything you want then every site is boring. Ideally no site should be dull and empty, nor should any site have everything you'd ever want. Digging down should be a venture into the unknown. Yes, portals to hell should be randomly placed and stumbled upon, but the world should be populated with enough of these random whatsits that finding a "normal" site should be anything but normal.

There's always room for both "simulation" and "game."