Bay 12 Games Forum

Under what circumstances can you stop and or attack an unmarked military convoy entering your country from a hostile nation? If we condemn Ukraine for this, we condemn any nation for attempting the same. That's not how the world works. you don't get to disguise your military trucks as RC, then blame Ukraine for being very skeptical of the reasons as to why a disguised military convoy suddenly wants to enter a rebel-held area.

You are assuming the wrong things. That the trucks are filled with military equipment & hostile actors, that  there is no coordination with aid organizations or the Ukrainian government, that it is an act of war.
You are ignoring practical realities- that Ukrainian citizens need aid, that there would be an enormous backlash for an indiscriminant, shoot-first-ask-later slaying of a humanitarian convoy, that Ukraine can afford to be zealous with their violence.
Even if it is their right to gun them down, that right is expected to be used with prudence. Not with cynical pre-emptive cruelty.

What are the best & worst case scenarios?
Assuming the convoy runs the border,
Say Ukraine bombs the shit out of the convoy.
They'll either A. Expose a russian war-crime invasion, the ends luckily justifying the means.
Or B. They'll slaughter an unarmed humanitarian convoy who trespassed in their territory. International condemnation, Russia gets a fire lit under their invasion engines.

Say they don't bomb the shit out of the convoy.
A. The rebels get resuplied, get enough steam to resist for many more months. Civilians get aid, Russia gets brownie points with civilians, Ukraine looks like a bitch, but Russia gets further international condemnation for continued violation of Ukraine's sovereignty & possibly called out for perfidious use of ICRC emblems.
B. Civilians get aid, Russia gets brownie points with civilians, Ukraine looks like a bitch, Russia gets condemnattion for continued violation of Ukraine's sovereignty.

Now which of those looks more appealing for Russia? Compare the results from A: War-crime resupplying convoy or B. Humanitarian aid.

Not only should Ukraine assume it's a humanitarian convoy because it's not the cruel thing to do, it is also more prudent ccncerning both the possible consequences of their actions and the likeliest reality, (it really is filled with aid).


Again, gunning down the first truck in an effort to block the convoy is the last-ditch-effort because even then the benefits barely outweigh the costs in the information/pr war.

Apparently the convoy has stopped in Siberia* Central Russia since the Ukraine government isn't allowing it to cross the border. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28768746

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28773542
Suspicions and also jokes made of it.

*Whenever I hear Central Russia, I always think Siberia, not Moscow.

Well that's good- if they actually are responding to Ukrainian warnings.

Supposedly Russia's agreed to pass through a controlled border terminal & to be accompanied by RC officials. IF they do that, I'd accept the help even if it gives the Russians a PR win.
A lot of people have been without water & electricity for more than a week.


But they do need permission. If they proceed without it, this was an aggressive act from the start. I just hope Ukraine doesn't stall too long if everything checks out.
And bombing an aid convoy is the absolute worst thing for Ukraine to do, even if they try to cross the border. Try to blockade the road on-foot/with vehicles, open fire if the lead truck doesn't stop? That's as far as they could reasonably go, and even that would be pushing it.
You DON'T preemptively bomb aid caravans dude.

If i follow your meaning, that's the effect they're implementing.
Zero accuracy unless you've aimed ahead.

Problem is it might be overkill with the indicator & the increased recoil. So you're required to have a solid, non-sliding footing &  aim ahead, they see where you're aiming (and where you are) and can avoid it, and even if they don't you'll only be able to loose one shot.

We'll see how it goes.

I'm actually more worried about deliberately trying to cause an incident by attempting to steam across the border.
The gambit here is laying claim to the area- ignoring the sovereignty of Ukraine & 'taking care of their brothers'.

They get through, Ukraine looks like a bitch that doesn't really govern their country, Russia gets brownie points for providing aid and strengthen their claim on the people & the region.

They don't get through and/or there's violence, they decry the Ukrainian government as (possibly murderous) monsters. And also establish more support for getting more directly involved.


I'm not too worried about anything as outrageous as a red cross trojan horse, or even supplying the rebels, (they're already doing that). They don't need to do any of that.

"aid convoy"

Any news on this? They left for the border hours & hours ago, a 'surprise' to the ICRC. Ukraine says they'll allow the trucks in, but that they must be supervised by ICRC. What're Russia's exact words on how the aid would be delivered? Was there ambiguity?
This is really starting to smell fishy.

+1 to everything.

Though I'd rather begrudgingly see what black has to say before we go up a path or drop on a ledge or what have you.

Ross is actually a cyborg- when his consciousness goes offline his maintenance subroutines go into effect and he cleans house, repairs himself, murders humans, and does a bit of stock marketing, (foreign exchanges).