Bay 12 Games Forum

This is incredibly interesting Putnam, thanks for this.

I understand that profiling is still in progress and it sounds like you've given your findings so far, and more is dependent on discovering other heavily-trafficked areas of code etc.

Have you found anything regarding number of items lying around?  This is the next thing I've heard from a lot of people recently, that if pathfinding killing FPS is a myth then it must be overproduction.  Having 10,000 roasts in storage when 500 would suffice.

I suppose FPS issues in this vein could be related to literally just having a lot of objects; or the work constantly being performed to produce these objects (i.e. socializing is a low FPS operation by comparison); or the jobs generated by all these objects ("put me in a stockpile!").

So far it sounds like FPS is strongly related to actors and not inert objects.  There's also long been evidence that flow, pumps, mist, smoke etc. are high FPS operations.

I learned so much while reading this thread...and in fact it's now making me lose a lot of motivation to keep playing my current fortress, if this is what I have to look forward to. 

I play the game in rare spurts and I think stress wasn't fully implemented last time I played.  Because I like to use the Lazy Newb Pack and also like playing on the most stable releases of things, I'm playing on the 2018 version, without any tweaks that may have happened to stress in Villains.  I realize that's less helpful for feedback but I felt compelled to post my thoughts anyway.

Early on I had most dwarves generally happy, as I usually was able to do in previous versions...though they weren't becoming ecstatic as they usually did.  And I had one particular dwarf, who practically nothing had ever happened to, who was just miserable.  Even as someone who uses the wiki quite a bit, I had no idea what was wrong with this dwarf or how to fix them.  Their thoughts were full of "admired own fine bed," "slept in a palatial bedroom," "were satisfied at work recently."  It really didn't indicate what the problem might be.  And they started tantruming, and continuously "conduct meeting," which I learned was an attempt to scream at the management.  I figured this particular dwarf's traits must've been a perfect storm of badness, so I let them starve in a locked room.  (Old habits die hard...forgot you could exile.)

Except after reading this thread, I've looked through some other dwarves' personalities, and they're all getting on that same road.  Personality changed for the worse after getting caught in the rain once several years ago.

Someone else started dipping down into the yellow, again for essentially no visible reason at all in a fort full of wonders and peace and good food.  This time it was a longstanding skilled dwarf I was kind of attached to and didn't want to lose.  I tried many things to fix their stress but it didn't seem like anything could really reduce it.  I locked them in a room with the expedition leader in an attempt to force them to yell at each other for a while, but they both just stood there with no job.  Didn't know what to do.  I ended up targeting the dwarf and typing remove-stress into DFHack, but even so I regret it.  They immediately shot up into the ecstatic range, and are essentially a drooling lobotomized happy dwarf.  It felt so artificial.

But reading this thread, it sounds like that's the only recourse.  Gotta remove-stress -all, or edit the raws to reduce/remove the effects of stress, or do both.  But I really don't want to have to do that.  I already customize the game in a few ways to my liking, such as limiting to 50 dwarves at the moment, but this just feels so cheaty, and not what's intended, and certainly damaging to the individuality of the dwarves as characters.  But on the other hand, I don't want to have to deal with dwarves losing their mind all the time for no good reason; no good reason from my point of view of course, I personally don't think being caught in the rain once is cause to become a bundle of nerves ready to explode at any moment.  That may be how dwarves are, but if that's going to be the case moving forward, then the game is going somewhere that I can't follow.

Very Retro and interesting, virtually prehistoric. Intriguing

Edit - Not sparing any time i immediately loaded this into 47.04 vanilla and uhh... hit a purple screen of blotchyness? Maybe like following the comments the colors are a little off so i might not have loaded. I can definitely see the diamond in the rough though.

Spoiler: "warning, very purple" (click to show/hide)

Could you use a safe or pre-built and tweaked version with a DFFD full upload please? When its all tidied up to the official graphics part of the modding forum would really be the magnum opus to top it off.

Water looks gorgeous though, i would like to see this run with TWBT

That is odd, I downloaded the file and compared it with the curses_800x600 still included in modern DF and it's identical except for the changed tiles.  Checked the color in photoshop and the magenta is 255 red - 0 green - 255 blue on both of them, imgur saved the png losslessly as far as I can tell.  However, the png included with DF is 4 bit, and imgur's is 24 bit.  You can also open it in MSPaint and re-save it as a 24 bit bmp, and use that.

Actually I went ahead and tried the png with vanilla DF (renamed it to curses_800x600 and replaced the existing one in data/art/) and it seems to work fine for me, you can see it in the snow tiles, the log and the stones:



In any case, I didn't intend for anyone to really use it, it's a pretty sophomoric early effort but I thought it was cool. 

jecowa actually helped me solve this.

All the files needed are in data/twbt_art/ and data/twbt_init/, and by copying everything in those folders over to data/art/ and data/init/ it simply started working.  I don't know if copying all the files was necessary, it looks like the pngs starting with an underscore and overrides.txt were the primary missing pieces.

I'm not sure if there's some guide or readme somewhere I missed that would've given these instructions, but it's good to know how to fix it.

Is there a reason this isn't default functionality in the Starter Pack?

No errors, and TWBT is definitely on and working because one of the main things it does is the awesome multi-layer view, which is working (in both the old 2016 game and the new game):

Quote from: UncleSporky on March 02, 2020, 03:25:48 pm

Anyway I don't know where the failing is here primarily...maybe PeridexisErrant, maybe DFHack.  I should probably ask in one of those threads instead, I thought it might be a graphic pack-related thing at first though.  But I just think this would tend to be a pretty visible thing since it's completely default Lazy Newb Pack behavior for anyone who downloads it as of right now.

And I know Phoebus isn't active, that's why I said hey Pheobus peoples.    Hey Phoebus maintainers, I suppose.

Oh sorry, I misread that.

Yeah, no idea. looks like it should work. You mighrated your save right? Maybe you were overwriting a file you shouldn't have or the new version is expecting a different folder/file structure. Try doing a clean install in a new folder without migrating your save. Start a new fort and try building a coffin and some stairs. That should allow you eliminate the save migration as cause.

Initially I did not migrate my save and started fresh with default settings, and noticed the graphical difference.  Then I migrated the old save to be able to demonstrate it side by side with the screenshot.

You might try double clicking Phoebus 16x while TWBT is enabled to reinstall the TWBT version of the pack. Don't worry if it can't install it into your save folder, we just need it installed into the data folder

I just did this and it didn't make any difference.

Has anyone else tried a fresh new default install of the LNP?  The old stable and the latest alpha are the same way.  But I understand that many people probably customize the game to their liking and don't use the packs.

I will probably ask in the LNP thread, thanks for trying some tech support but this doesn't seem to be the Phoebus pack's fault.

Hey, Phoebus peoples.  I have a question.

I play DF really sporadically, returning once every 4-6 years...

The last time I played was in Feb 2016, with the cutting edge starter packs of that time, which had just introduced advanced features of taverns, temples and libraries, with instruments and bookmaking etc.  I had loaded up the old save to see what I'd been doing and brush up on the game again.

I'm playing now on the last stable release, linked from here, which is 0.44.12-r08.  I believe this is from 2018.  I know the new "villains" update is out, but I prefer to play on the most stable release I can, so I'm fine with this.

However, I have noticed that the graphics (which is Phoebus default on both of them) are different between the two.  That old cutting edge 2016 pack has better graphics in some ways than the newer one!

Old pack:



Latest stable release:



Coffins return to zeroes, both floodgates and up/down stairs revert to a simple X, and farm plots look worse.  There are a number of other differences visible too, like you can see the wheelbarrows, bins and forges are different.

Does anyone know why this might be?  Like...was there some weird dispute over who owned the art and it got reverted at some point?

I looked through the art file folder and couldn't find those old better graphics anywhere.  I don't know where the game is pulling them from.

Any ideas?

EDIT:  I see someone had a similar issue a few pages back in 2017.  Is this really a bug that has persisted this long...?