Bay 12 Games Forum

Bit late to the party, but let me say thanks for this thread -- and your efforts with this awesome game overall. 

I'm a returning player from before these reworks, and while I do like the idea of dwarves having more needs, and agree that it was too easy to make everyone permanently ecstatic in the Old Days(TM), the implementation of the new systems has been quite demotivating. A lot of good points have been made here already so I'll keep it brief. My main issues are:

1) Lack of autonomy on the dwarves' part.
2) Clunky and opaque mechanics, especially regarding socialization.
3) Being "punished" for things I can't do anything about.

I don't want my dwarves to be jaded sociopaths who wade through mountains of gore without a care in the world, but I don't want them to feel like a bunch of fragile spoiled waifs either. It makes me wonder how these beards survived the trip to my fort and how they built a society to begin with, if they'll suffer for years because of that time they got rained on when I sent them outside to gather herbs so they'd stop being unhappy about not being able to wander. I want a red arrow be an emergency, all hands on deck, what did I do wrong and how can I fix it situation, because I'm a sucker for trying to keep my fictional people happy, and the current system makes it harder to empathize and sympathize in that way.

My most urgent wishes would be:

1) Give us ways to enable dwarves to autonomously fulfill all or at least most of their needs, and improve existing ways, especially regarding socialization. Lonely dwarves are my biggest frustration right now.
2) Weather and cave adaptation effects really need toning down IMO, and proper clothing could help reduce the impact further.
3) Add more ways to give dwarves happy thoughts based on what is happening. For example, a fortress-wide mood boost after opening a tavern or beating back a siege. "Urist McSoldier was proud to defend the fortress from our enemies!" and "Urist McCivilian was relieved that the military defeated our enemies." Something like that. Such a victory, as well as events like the creation of a artifact, could also make the population like the involved dwarves a bit more? That would help the fort feel more like a community.

I haven't played in a couple of versions but had a massive craving to return lately, both to revisit old fun and to check out the new features. The new needs system, as much as I like then idea of it, gives me a bit of a headache though. Though I can deal with most aspects of it, what's really been demotivating me is massive problems with dwarven loneliness -- both due to the strict requirements for what counts as socialization between individuals, and because dwarves have so little to no initiative. It's sad to see a bunch of increasingly unhappy beards sitting in the pub with "no job" rather than making friends with each other or talking to the local family members they miss so much. (I've also had problems with dwarves stressing out about not being able to pray despite there being both dedicated and general use temples.)

Has Toady mentioned anything about upcoming improvements to these issues? I'd be really nice if the dwarves sought each other out, if spending time together (mining, engraving, training, debating etc.) built friendships, etc.

There's this....Vermin extermination squad that is running around the map because I've got like 50 cats who decided to form a pack instead of attaching onto people.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

They're above the walls, and some between them where the traps are.
It continues up the next Z level for another dozen or so cats. I've never had this many cats before so I don't know if pack behavior like this is normal, but it's kinda cool to watch.

Awesome. The cat-lover in me loves the notion of a huge roving pride, though I'd hate to see them getting killed by ambushes.

I want to get back into DF, but my perfectionism demands a site that is "just so", and so far I have not found it. One of the closest candidates includes a hydra lair. I'm definitely tempted to give it a whirl and see if I can wall it in before it eats everyone, then weaponize it later. :p

But if "locals" are immune to traps, that's a bummer because it means no caging for taming and breeding. Meh. I did not not that.

The marksdwarf was fairly ineffective, but the turkeys jumped on him started biting the minotaur in the neck. Although not doing any damage, the turkeys kept the minotaur pinned down while the rest of the doomed axedwarf's squad and more marksdwarves showed up and finished off the minotaur.

War turkeys? That's a hilarious idea. How many of them did you sic on that minotaur? Got any data on how many it takes to pin a goblin- or human-sized enemy?

And VerdantSF, what is that tool you're using to display the civilizations and wars? I'm completely out of the loop.

@VerdantDF and Skyte, thanks for the dragon-breeding hints. Gotta try this sometime. And may the Claspletters continue to prosper.

... yeah, great. The "why is sex bad and violence good" strawman/derailment is so predictable, people, and I'm not going there. Goodness forbid we question the portrayal of female characters in any way. I just want my half of humanity to be represented in roughly the same manner as yours -- which absolutely includes villains, goons and redshirts to be blown away. Just don't turn it into fricking torture porn.

I like the "conflict between two equally arrogant, vain douchebags and cause the slaughter of tens of thousands of far nicer, more innocent expendable goons" description for OMD!, Microcline. The game was refreshing in a way because most games treat the player character as the Second Coming, the Chosen One, the Best Thing Since Sliced Bread -- which gets old, too. Poking fun at its own protagonist definitely fit into the theme and style of the game. But nothing about this implies sexualization. Hell, in my eyes it diminishes a theme when the design of the female characters (what few there are) must include it apparently by default.

I had a blast with the first game and will definitely pick up the sequel, too. The 2-player option a great new addition, I'm glad they listened to the fans who requested co-op play. The Sorceress design is shit, though. *sigh*