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Messages - Halnoth

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16
Food webs and energy pyramids are basic middle school science. Literally all life requires an energy source to continue to function. This is because life is essentially an energy transfer system where by kinetic (light, motion, sound, heat, etc) and potential energy (chemical) are transfered back and forth. This system requires a constant input of new outside energy.

Or a store of old energy that has not yet been depleted.  On Earth, crustal chemosynthetic bacteria and archaea that live in basalt have some pretty exotic metabolic pathways, and in some cases have access to stores of energy that are substantial enough to possibly stretch past the lifetime of the surface biosphere.  (It is not clear if the reactions involved can be sustained for long once the Earth is no longer capable of supporting surface water, and plate tectonics, however.)  In other real locations (e.g. Io for a dramatic case), tides and related orbital processes can produce heating over long enough periods to be relevant for life.

The "old energy" as you say is still an input of outside energy. In the most basic sense the system boundary is the cell membrane.

Regardless, you are talking about bacteria. Nothing the size of a dwarf could subsist on such a limited amount of biomass.

As to tidal heating (ala Europa), it remains to be seen if that particular hypothesis pans out. There is as yet no evidence to support the claim that complex (multicellular life, like a dwarf) could exist in such an environment.

Personally, I think that there is a high likelihood single celled organisms exist on solar objects such as Europa. Not sure about anything much more complex.


17
DF General Discussion / Re: Dwarves, Philosophy, and Religion
« on: August 20, 2018, 02:42:20 pm »
Toady has done an amazing job with the personality rewrite if just looking at one of your dwarves personalities caused you to question existence.

18
DF General Discussion / Re: Lowerarchy of Hell
« on: August 20, 2018, 02:37:15 pm »
It's nice. But posting it here, without explanation, instead of in, say, community games and stories (it's a "story" right?) or off in the depths of the lower off-topic boards (it's not actually dwarf fortress related) makes it look like it might be a suggestion? (for the suggestions board), a mod concept? (for the mod forum) or maybe a question? (for this forum, fotf thread), or perhaps a statement on how dwarf fortress works? (for the wiki). Thus the first reaction, rather than, 'that was an interesting read' (which it was) was 'what is this?'.

Yup

19
DF General Discussion / Re: Lowerarchy of Hell
« on: August 18, 2018, 02:42:32 pm »
What is this?

20
Something else occured to me, if dwarves existed on Earth IRL, then they would probably be of the genus Homo. This would mean that there would be a distinct possibility of interbreeding between the two species. Given the low reproductive potential of dwarves; dwarves as a species might have gone the way of Neaderthal and been bred out of existence. In fact there were several subspecies of the genus Homo that coexisted with Homo Sapiens and were either bred out of existence or they could not compete with Homo Sapien.

Of course they could of been different enough genotypically to prevent interbreeding. Or they weren't of the genus Homo and instead their last common ancester was shared with gorrilas instead of chimps (just as an example).

21
a52, I agree with all of what you just said. This is why I said earlier that any dwarf civilization would need to have a significant surface presence. An energy input from outside (organic matter) would need to be consistent for there to be lifeforms as seen in dwarf fortress caverns.

This is why I think early dwarves would inherently conflict with early humans. Not necesarily in a war format, but rather as competition for resources. One or the other would win out as their socieites progress due to an inherent conflict of interests.

For instance, mining as humans practice it, would probably be seen as incredibly destructive to dwarves who would be interested in maintening their underground spaces. Sort of like knocking over an ant hill.

22
Food webs and energy pyramids are basic middle school science. Literally all life requires an energy source to continue to function. This is because life is essentially an energy transfer system where by kinetic (light, motion, sound, heat, etc) and potential energy (chemical) are transfered back and forth. This system requires a constant input of new outside energy. On Earth there are only really two sources of energy, solar and geothermal, ALL life requires access in some way to one of these two. For the majority of lifeforms on our planet solar is the input. Even in caves, the ecosystem is fueled by an animal that ventures to the surface, or by bacteria and detritus that filters down or into a cave. There are NO animals in existance that live underground, find all their food underground, and are the size of a dwarf. Even if there were, they would not have a large population and would be extremely unlikely to develop the set of adaptations that we associate with dwarves.


23
In my opinion, two (or more) intelligent species could not exist at the same time on the same planet without one wiping out or subjugating the other. As in human history, the group with the more advanced weaponry will win out. I assumed dwarves would advance military tech right along with everything else. Especially if they had other intelligent species to content with.
That doesn't make sense, IMO, given that humans and dwarves have completely opposing attitudes towards sunlight. Neither really wants to engage the other on their own turf.

Maybe the humans get greedy for the dwarves' gold, but then the dwarves just collapse the tunnels on them. I don't really know what the dwarves want from the humans. Surface foods? Poetry? It's easier to just trade.

Really, it's those elves that should be worried. Humans and dwarves tag team them and chop down all their trees for housing and potash.

For dwarves to actually exist in the real world with all the same attributes that are normally given to dwarves in a fantasy setting and without additional adaptations they would have to have a significant surface presence. Nearly all life on Earth relies on photosynthesis to produce food.

Even if we ignore the above, the simple fact that modern human civilization relies so much on metal would cause strife.

In my opinion, one group would have wiped out the other group long before the modern era. In most fantasy settings humans reproduce faster but dwarves generally possess more advanced technology. Human history would suggest that the dwarves would win out because generally the group of humans with the better weapons were the more successful. However, from an evolutionary standpoint, the higher birth rate might give the humans a big enough advantage to succeed.

Of course, elves with their wooden weapons are straight out. I can't recall if DF elves have a lower birth rate like in other fantasy settings but without metalurgy elves wouldn't stand a chance.

24
DF technology will be always at the level of the 1400s.

Right, but the OP asked how deep dwarves could go IRL.

25

Technology isn't a single thing.  Dwarves would likely invent technology that is specifically useful to the problems their underground lifestyle creates, that however does not mean they are inventing machine guns and conquering the world.

In my opinion, two (or more) intelligent species could not exist at the same time on the same planet without one wiping out or subjugating the other. As in human history, the group with the more advanced weaponry will win out. I assumed dwarves would advance military tech right along with everything else. Especially if they had other intelligent species to content with.

27
DF Suggestions / Re: Coin minter skill profession
« on: August 08, 2018, 04:34:28 am »
I don't see why minting coins would require any different skill from crafting a figurine. It's probably even simpler since you can mass produce them with a mold.
Coins aren't molded, they are punched, pressed or stamped(whichever you would call it).

Bumber's point is still valid. Coins are fairly easy to mass produce.

28
DF Dwarf Mode Discussion / Re: fps on embark in 0.44.12
« on: August 07, 2018, 06:42:34 pm »
I also notice having a bunch of ore laying around hurts fps. Also products that aren't in stockpiles.

That probably has to do with the jobs generated to take said items to their stockpiles. The jobs would cause an increase in pathing. Especially ore which is probably not located right in the middle of your main walkways.

29
DF Suggestions / Re: Coin minter skill profession
« on: August 07, 2018, 06:08:26 pm »
In my opinion a specific minting skill is not needed. Metalcrafting ought to suffice.

30
DF Modding / Re: Need help adding new material
« on: July 30, 2018, 09:42:39 am »
You could take away the wood armor weapon tags from the elves entity and then give Elves a reaction that makes your new material. Make the new material a metal and give elves access to the forge. Make sure you give the armor and weapon tags to your new material.

This should result in elves making armor and weapons out of the new material and using it exclusively.

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