Bay 12 Games Forum

Well, I've got a poet, so I suppose I'll just keep her untrained in medicine and engineering and put her in my public library (my doctors and engineers will be in my private library) and see what happens. I will train her in Recordkeeper, though, because I need something to do with her in the meanwhile. I'll also need to find someone who has no engineering or doctor skills but is skilled in writing and wordsmithing to teach her, because she has skill in neither!

Record keeper is a scholarly skill (I don't know what it is related to though) so that might cause her to research other topics.

My hunch is that poetry is not a scholar skill. Alot of dwarves seem to have some skill in poet but don't write poetry frequently. I do occasionally get poetry books but I never see dwarves discussing it.

Dwarves do not pray while in jail. My chains are in the temple and all prisoners have unmet worship needs. They will attack dwarves near them though.

Also, I put most of my legendary military dwarves on scholar duty.
Either observer is an academic skill too, or their name comes from having a high Teacher skill, but none to dabbling in all other academic skills.
I think the latter.

Their academic profession is called 'naturalist'.
It's not the tracking skill, even though they are all dabblers there, because my non-military hunter, who is better at tracking, but lacks the observer and teaching skills, is just a 'scholar'.

In fort I've noticed that dwarves will not gain a scholar profession until they gain a level in it. I will go through my forts and see if I can prove observer as a scholar skill. I haven't been checking for it because I didn't think of it. I have found no correlation between the teacher skill and any academic profession title but I think I had a migrant peasant with a high teacher skill and nothing else a few forts back so I will check. Since I am looking at observer I will also look at other common military skills to see if I can find something.

Back on task, according to the wiki most jobs give either 30 or 10 experience.  95% of jobs give the standard 30, while mass jobs (like stone detailing or firing at an archery target) give just 10.  However, attacking a living target gives a huge experience boost for weapon skills.  Due to the extreme length of time it takes scholars to finish their various tasks, they rarely get very far trying to train in-fortress.  I've seen cheesemakers with great intellects that valued knowledge spend years without breaking "dabbling" in their skills new scholarly skills.  They even gained masters, but the master didn't know much crap in the first place >.>  Skill gains from master/student relationships should have a higher modifier than just the base 30.  You are getting direct 1v1 instruction from someone you respect enough to call "master," you should be learning far more than at a normal rate researching on your own or just arguing with random Urists.  Even then, it'd still be slower growth.  I don't expect them to pop straight to legendary like a miner tearing through a sand bank for several months, but spending a week on the same job to only gain 10 exp is too much in the other direction. 

Skill growth for scholarly activities appears to be split between skills. 1 discussion for example will give 10-30 in speaking and 10-30 in chemist (or w/e topic). Same for book writing which will give a (I think) standard 6 in wordsmith, 12 in writing, and 10 in a topic skill.

I do agree that skill growth is slow but I'm working on a way to train them faster. I think its all about the library set up. Previously in .02-.03 forts I saw skill growth all over. However, since starting .04 I have not seen dwarves discussing topics that they do not know about. My current fort has 12 scholars, all with medical skills except 1 that has tracking and mechanics. For the past 5 years the dwarves have only talked about these topics. In those 5 years nearly all of them have gained at least 1 skill level in each. My idea here is based on the idiom "you don't know what you don't know" so my next test will be as follows;

Embark with 3 scholar dwarves (the other 4 will build the fort so I don't contaminate my scholars with job skills), all will have a 3 in writing and 2 in teaching with the following skills
Dwarf 1: 5 Diagnose
Dwarf 2: 5 Geography
Dwarf 3: 5 Chemist

I will then set up 3 different libraries who have no scholar visiters and test what skills are gained when. I will have to be careful as to what skills any new scholars have that I add to the libraries so as not to contaminate my experiment. If I get different topic skills from migrants then I will open up new libraries.

Ideally I want at least 5 scholars per library to maximize the amount of activities undertaken. I hope unskilled dwarves don't mess it up, I may have to savescum a few times to preserve my data.

My hypothesis is that if we decrease the amount of potential topics then we will see an increase in skill growth in the remaining topics.

Now I did a similar test in .02 but like I said dwarves appear to not discuss unknown topics in .04.


 

Damn, I am on 42.03.

I guess I'll just have to get rid of the temple.

or upgrade

No visible skill gain. Critical thinker is still adequate, other skills still dabbling.
It does make me happy though. My dwarves had failed to write a book in over two years. They like discussing way too much.

Do you use dwarf therapist?

Dwarves gain about 10-30 xp in a topic skill each time they ponder/discuss/teach/learn + 10-30xp in speaking/student/teacher (except ponder since that is a solo activity).

I was just curious if you could pinpoint which exact skill the discovery was linked to. I have started tracking topics versus skill gain so that I can start finding links between subjects and also whether some scholar activities actually net multiple skill gains or not.

The practical gain here would be to ascertain which scholar skills you should combo at embark if you were so inclined.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154895.0

My on going library research probably qualifies.

Edit: I just noticed this was a necro from two years ago. Why would you necro a dead thread? The author is not likely to update it at this point. Create your own listing if you like the idea so much.

Quote from: BadLeo on January 04, 2016, 01:31:55 pm

Quote from: Dirst on January 04, 2016, 10:17:26 am

Enjoy your trip, and safe travels home.

We all know he's secretly doing a DF live action disguised as camping trip so, as an experienced player, he probably loaded a crossbow, quiver and some bolts when packing his things, he will be safe.

Or, is he attempting the one-pick-camping-trip?

Silently digging out his bunker as we speak. Now he just has to knap a few rock mugs to trade with a passing caravan. Priority being an anvil but I doubt the hendersons carry one in the back of their wagon. He will probably have to make due with leather armor and his pick for defense, unless there is obsidian near by. Heres to hoping there is no aquifer and he can find some berries to brew into wine before he sobers up enough to realize he is wearing xxclothingxx. Luckily he can butcher a horse and eat *horse tallow roasts* until the park ranger finds him, accuses him of slaughering trees, insults his stature, and promptly carries him off to the hospital so he can get treatment for his dented right 4th toe. There, unfortunately, no one will do any Feed/Water prisoner tasks and his bed will need to be deconstructed around him. Next thing he knows hes woke up in some meadhall wondering why his toe hurts. Luckily he can exit the meadhall and fast travel home to upload the latest version of the starter pack.

Ah thx. That was it. I assigned the custom profession Scholar to all my Scholars to easier find them.

I have got the a.m. sage and 2 Engineers. The Engineers have following stats, just in case you are interested:

First:

Fluid Engineer - 11
Mechanic - 12
Optics Engineer - 7
Writer - 8
Student - 12
Teacher - 11


Second:

Mechanic - 16
Tracker - 12
Student - 1
(Bookbinding - 2)


Three Scholars have high stats in one or more skills, but no custom title.

First:

Surgeon - 12
Wound Dresser - 12
Student and Teacher - 1


Second

Tracker - 10
Student - 1
(Gem Cutter and Gem Setter - 11 each)


Third

Pump Operator - 11
Student - 1

The engineering skill layouts are expected though it is interesting to note that mechanic and naturalist apparently don't have ties (though that isn't unexpected). Would need more proof there.

The first scholar should be titled doctor or surgeon. Maybe if the dwarf gains skill you will see a change.

The tracker should be naturalist. Again gaining skill might cause a change.

I am not entirely sure pump operator gets a scholarly title. Gaining that skill is rare since the range of topics that can be discussed is super low (the screw is it I think and even that might be mechanic) I have only seen skill gain in that category twice. Both times it was on an engineering scholar, only 10 xp worth (so discussed one time), and I didn't see what the topic was.