Yeah. Which makes about as much sense as sensing them when they're only on the other side of an elevator door. Those things are pretty decent mufflers.
...Lars didn't get a specific sense of danger. For all we know, the danger sensed was not just on the one floor.
I don't remember what I was replying, but I find it more likely you are wrong rather than me. So: You're wrong!
...Words fail me.
I kinda have to wonder why Halo is the first FPS that comes to your mind, but that's not what I'm assuming. I'm assuming that even if they suddenly realize that we're doing something and try to break in, we have better chances (namely, we can amp the other side of the door, or aim guns and shoot as the open holes, whatever.
...I'm trying to understand your logic. You think that us, distracted by such things as breaking out or not getting molten metal dripped on us, getting attacked when the UWM decides to, leaves us a better chance of survival than attacking enemies unaware that we know they're there and hence getting the drop on them.
That's just stupid. First off, we'd be distracted. Second off, they'd get the first shots. Third off, they probably have excellent anti-personal weapons, up to and including fun little toys called grenades which could kill all of us at once.
AHA! I never posted an action, 'cause I'm dead, smartypants! Therefore, you lied, liar!
I told what I honestly believed the truth to be. Rest in piece.
Okay, now you're the one assuming we're playing Halo. If you haven't noticed, this ship isn't linear- there were other colored line to folow, and even corridors without lines! *gasp*
You point? Technically, we have many places we could probably go! (If cutting through the elevator wall and then the elevator
shaft wall didn't take up too much of our resources, kill us, or lead to us being killed by the UWM.) But once we're out...well, we're out of the frying pan, into a frying pan that wasn't being quite so heavily watched until we flopped over into it.
Or fast, effective, unpredictable, and completely undetectable aside from seeing the hole.
Wow. You are just so wrong.
1. Fast? Cutting through metal walls with heat is slow. You either need to wait for the metal to melt (and avoid getting any on you), or grab one of those hull-cutters, which are fairly slow.
2. Effective? Sure, it's good at cutting through walls. However, we won't necessarily be in a better position; in fact, we probably won't be. What rooms do you expect to be adjacent to an elevator shaft? The target room, other elevators, maybe a random room very close to the elevator (but probably not close, if this elevator if like the ones I'm familiar with).
3. Unpredictable? If the people don't come out for a while, what else are they going to think we're doing? A puzzle?
4. Undetectable? Haha, no. Any method of breaching the walls is going to create a lot of heat, for one. Any smart ship designer (assuming available resources to allocate to it, and the UWM has the resources) would include something to let them detect breaches of the hull or walls, so everyone could know about it even if they were on the other side of the ship. It's kind of important to know which rooms might be exposed to the vacuum of space, neh? And even if they don't have those sensors, the chance of them not seeing the hole is very slightly greater than the chance of breaking into an adjacent elevator.
That's a really good point. Why did you want to open the elevator again?
So we can get the first shot, maybe find a way past them.
I know, I'm amazed that Jim hasn't died yet too. I mean, it's not like space magic only kills it's user when they try wildly stupid things, right?
It's endangered users other times, too. For instance, when it's failed.
And overshots can happen to anyone.
Grenade wasn't the only counter I listed. And if you can't think up an effective counter, then I don't think there is one.
You're smart, right? Here: If in the next few days, you can think up a standing order to sods that I can't think up an easy counter for, I'll concede this whole argument.
I'm a biologist, not a tactician! Do you demand your doctor provide a summary of the reasons that the Rapa Nui society collapsed before you're convinced he's qualified to operate on you?
And like I said,
there is no reason to think that the commander isn't there!More importantly, the terms of your promise are horribly biased towards you. We don't actually know what the sod commander said...but you know what I said, so if you can find one out-of-the-box thing to do, you still declare yourself the winnar.
But let's play your game.
"Until I say otherwise, shoot anyone that comes out of the elevators. Also shoot anyone that attacks you, approaches the bridge, or causes damage to the ship until I say otherwise. Until I say otherwise, throw grenades into any new holes you see being cut or blown in a wall."
Aside from occasional rouge agents, the UWM has never fought an organized force with amps or manips.
They think we're rogue agents, of a sort. They
thought we were a planetary rebellion, but now we've shown we're something more. There's an HMRC ship that refueled right before they lost communications with the planet. Using those anti-rogue-agent tactics should be expected.
STRAWMAN!
Wrong. You're saying we could drop into the middle of the sods and, as long as we don't obviously attack them, which means that (if we had a Monopoly board), we could play Monopoly without the sods reacting.
It's a bit of a simplification (other things would react before the first player was eliminated), but I was trying to make a point.
What are they going to do to us, while we're in a metal box, that doesn't let us get a roll?
Oh, they'll need rolls. But they can charge dynamic bonuses if we don't act, and there are a lot of them, and
they get the first shot instead of us.
Further, if you're gonna bring meta into this...
Forgot to mention, I was being ore figurative than literal.
why would PW give us a chance to not charge blindly through the doors if that was the best plan? (We can assume Lars rolled a 4 or five- there's a 33% chance of that, vs a 17% chance of a one. A seven would have had the same thing happen, but it's just a standard turret like all the ones we've already destroyed.
Because A. we wouldn't know it was the best plan without thinking about it and B. if he didn't warn us, we would have calmly opened the door and been faced with a number of angry sods, rather than being able to spend a couple seconds preparing an ambush before actually opening the doors and attacking. Getting the first shot, I'd like to make clear.
Still wondering why it's more risky than walking right into gun barrels aimed at you *shrug*
Again: We'd bet the initiative, and they'd likely be throwing grenades at us or something if we screw around inside the elevator.
...Have you ever tried to shoulder a rifle and shoot at something with any amount of expediency?
Yes. I've missed every time. And that was aiming at targets that I knew exactly where they were. I only hit when I actually aim at the target--and if the target is on the other side of the non-glass door, I'll need to aim
after the door opens, not
before.
Tell me, the door is closed, and will automatically open in twenty seconds. How do you prepare?
Raise weapons and prepare to aim and fire once the doors open.
They're the only other people who reached the bridge.
So, let me see if I understand this. You're saying that the one other team that advanced to an ambush position got ambushed, but none of the others did. And this points to useful central computers not being present...how?
Reality-warping. No it couldn't.
Hell, even piecewise admitted that it didn't make sense.
Reality warping only lasts for the time the actions are taking place.
[/quote]
Not really. Certainly, the effects last longer--and to get a single door's control panel to affect all doors,
something about the way doors are controlled had to change...so changing other aspects isn't a possibility we can discount. Besides, "The doors all open, but five seconds later the central AI closes them all" isn't much of an overshot, and hence the overshot had to make that not happen.
Aaaand your best plan involves opening the door into the room full of said sods with guns pointed at you?
Honestly, I'd take the elevator's floor melting over that. At least I'd only be maimed.
You're forgetting something: It's better to shoot first than to be shot at when the enemy feels like it.
Please don't call my statements moronic. Even if they are. It's annoying.
I think we're going to be going into an infinite loop if I reply to that, so I'll ignore it.
Is this the only one of 'there' checkpoints? Why's the deadly stuff already here? Why isn't it already set up if it's here?
I don't know and it doesn't matter. Because they know we'd be coming here. Because they didn't find out long ago.
Why are any of these arguments promoting the idea of waiting? It's like the Creationists who say that the fossil record doesn't have transitional forms so evolution is wrong.
"Running through the crowd" is an even worse idea. I didn't think it could be done without being an obvious troll! Good job.
No...it really isn't. And like I said, we don't have good options. We're screwed. We're probably going to get killed no matter what we do. Getting the drop on them, maybe running through the squad of (probably rifle-wielding [best weapons for the job], probably not crowded-in [that reduces effectiveness and efficiency]) sods...better chance than cutting through a wall and simultaneously hoping that the UWM does nothing and that we end up somewhere better.
Did you read the turn for the sod team? Where they took out a guy pretty much instaneously, and perfectly?
We're going to need to face them no matter what. And again, there's no reason to think that the other side of the wall is any less sod-filled...unless we open a hole between two elevator shafts.
They have more information than we do on the armed combatants. And also better weapons, more people, preparation...
1.Ehh, maybeish.
2....Okay, yeah, but that's because PW doesn't know much about guns.
3.You've got four people, right? Four man teams? Guess what SWAT typically uses?
4.For breaching a room? No more than what you could do.
[/quote]
1. It's typical for the SWAT team to have more information than "There is something dangerous on the other side of the door."
2. Also because we are three people with assorted rifles, as opposed to well-trained officers with "special weapons" such as flashbangs and tasers. (Okay, maybe that's less special, but I'd still bet it'd take down a sod better than a rifle; the exact hit location matters less.)
3. Three, actually.
4. I very much doubt that.
Because the space magic pixie dust is only strong where the space pixies sprinkled it, namely on the outside? Hell if I know. All I'm saying is that you don't know that.
And you don't know that. Occam's Razor. It's simpler that amps work anywhere in the brain, so without reason to think they don't...especially if your best guess involves some flavor of "space magic pixie dust"...
This reminds me of the april fool's argument. Technically, you lost that one too.
...
I'm not sure what you're talking about or why it's relevant.
I think at least one of these quotes was replied to with "STRAWMAN". Go look up there.
Done and explained.
Oh? They matter very much if you're training a militia, and are gonna be attacked in a matter of weeks.
Notice how we're not a militia being attacked in a few weeks, but rather a bunch of people in an elevator going to be attacked inside of five minutes.
And the dexterity of the learning person, and their willingness to learn, the skill of the teacher, the gun, and a lot of other stuff. Seriously, it's like you don't even care about the depth of this stuff.
I care about it when it's relevant. In the context of an analogy, it really isn't.
Plenty of militaries have done exactly that.
And they tend to suffer massive casualty rates, almost always losing when they lack enough of a large numerical advantage that they'd have decent odds if their only weapons were those they stole from the enemy.
Being trained when to say "kill that guy" is a lot easier than being trained how to maintain discipline among a group of terrified/angry young men. Even more important, a sod commander isn't usually in the thick of it- rather, he can sit in his cushy bean bag chair with a headset and laptop, and stream some comforting Mozart in the backround while he sips his space coffee.
"Being trained to say 'kill that guy'" is the equivalent of rifle training consisting of being told which end the bullets come out of, or officer training consisting of ten minutes of practicing a scary voice. Will it work? Technically. Will it work well? No.
And I highly doubt that sod commanders act as you do. After all, normal officers don't--why would sods be different? Since they completely lack initiative, they'd need to be in the field
more than normal-troop commanders do!
