Bay 12 Games Forum

That's unfortunate.

In that case, a portable hole would not be an option.

Well, there aren't any rules about sticking bags of holding inside of each other, so I'd say stuff it in a smaller Bag of Holding.

For how long?

We could probably put together a small army with this many PCs...

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 13, 2013, 01:52:25 pm

Watch how Bay12 does flame wars:

Out of curiosity, Irony, why do you prefer 4e?

It's just more balanced and codified in general. There's no touch attacks or save-or-dies or any of the other glaring problems 3.5 has or can have, but more than that there's no conceptual gap between how different classes work or how monsters are built.
The most noticeable effects of that are that casters are no longer wonky at lower levels and then become overpowered at high ones, non-casters aren't boring or gimmicky and also underpowered at higher levels, and monsters aren't all weird because the way they're built isn't directly tied to how strong or useful they are. Those are just the worst symptoms, though; the system is healthier overall because of that universal approach.
And yeah, there's some casualties in there. I liked 3.5's massive spell list with dozens of awesome effects, and I liked that you could figure out what an ogre who's also a 3rd level monk and 3rd level sorcerer looks like. But it's overall just a better-balanced, better-designed game because of those sacrifices.

I won't argue that 3.5 lacks flaws; I'll just argue that they're more superficial than 4e's.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 13, 2013, 02:13:52 pm

Quote from: mainiac on July 13, 2013, 02:01:53 pm

Quote from: scapheap on July 13, 2013, 01:58:57 pm

I like 4e, but then again, I never played a different version.

You poor dear.

Agreed. 4e is so...it doesn't feel like an TRPG so much as a VRPG.

Lies and slander.

Not so. Each of the classes is built much the same: X HP per level, modified by how high your Constitution score is, with so many powers of these types per class. There are a few choices per class outside of powers, most of these choices being made at the beginning of the character and/or just choosing special powers. Powers, powers, powers--things you can do that no one else ever can. Monsters and PCs seem to be built differently--same ways of calculating damage done and taken, but the guts seem different. 3.5, you didn't have that--fundamentally, a PC and a wolf were built in the same way, just starting at different points. The economics make no sense at their heart, before going into the pricing details; 3.5 at least tried to make it work from the assumption that characters would try to sell their treasure fairly quickly and wouldn't have shops. Encounter powers, which make no sense without a firm division between "combat" and "not combat". Healing surges, for Pelor's sake! I could go on, but overall...it's the aesthetic. It's how the game feels, it's more hack-and-slashy with less challenge from other things. I remember a free 4e adventure I picked up--combat encounter after combat encounter, with a few that could be solved with cleverness if you knew what to look for and a trap which was really another combat encounter, just with a mechanical device. I played an (incomplete) 4e campaign on these very forums; several combat encounters, nothing else.
All of this is putting aside silliness with skills and other minor things, of course. Little quirks exist in both systems. I suppose it comes down to 3.5's "tone" vs. 4e's balance. Every time, I pick the tone, because I haven't played much with people who cared about balance.

Quote from: scapheap on July 13, 2013, 01:58:57 pm

I like 4e, but then again, I never played a different version.

You poor dear.

Agreed. 4e is so...it doesn't feel like an TRPG so much as a VRPG.

Watch how Bay12 does flame wars:

Out of curiosity, Irony, why do you prefer 4e?