Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 03:32:25 pm

I would accept such a name if it was accurate.
What does "Baabar" mean?

Greeks thought that foreigners spoke like goats, so they called them barbarians. As in the baaa baaa noise that goats make. So I'm basically rediscovering an old racial epithet.

Amusing. Although I'd rather wait to see if the Raiders actually look like goats before calling them such.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 03:44:25 pm

Quote from: IronyOwl on July 05, 2013, 03:34:09 pm

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 06:37:34 am

((What four things are you thinking of that would create a whole ecosystem, and how many of them generate Belief?))

((Grass, deer, wolves, worms. Not necessarily a good ecosystem, but presumably self-sustaining, no?

((Not really. To pick the most obvious issue, a lack of decomposers. Worms can only do so much, unless we assume that by "worms" you mean "all the worm species that could be needed" rather than "all species of worms needed to fill the roles of breaking down organisms".))

((I don't see why the worms couldn't be generalists, or why you'd need a separate kind for every season and soil depth. Certainly not just to keep your tribe from starving to death assuming they're good hunters, at least.

((It's not just earthworms. There's other kinds of worms, too, you know...))

But sure, let's see a list of every creature or role you think is necessary to have a functioning ecosystem.))

((I'm not confident enough in my abilities as an ecologist to create a list of creatures and say, "If you had these you'd have everything you need for an ecosystem!" But for a professional's estimate, take a look at the list of species in Biosphere 2. There were apparently 3,800 of them...and there were still issues, so that may not be enough.))

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 03:44:25 pm

Quote

((Because that's boring. Making everything that isn't a humanoid or someone's special poison bird some sort of generic, nondescript tree or assumed carnivore food source doesn't result in a very interesting or immersive world, and it opens up issues with what exactly is out there. Can poison frogs be assumed in a rainforest? Bison on plains? Lions on savannas? Messenger-worthy birds in forests?

((Notice that I didn't request any animals larger than a rat. So, that would disallow bison and lions. As for poison dart frogs and "messenger-worthy" birds (seeing that just about any bird could do with a short enough distance and a small enough message), why not?))

((Because now people are handwaving paralyzing venoms and assassin beetle swarms in, and the ecosystem still doesn't have any trees or large herbivores anyway. What's the point? If you want or need it, create it.))

((The problem is, no one has and there's no reason to think they will. If someone doesn't care about making every single species "interesting," why not just let them stick some mundane rats, trees, etc, in so the world works?))

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 03:44:25 pm

Quote

If the whole focus of the game was on making mythical beasts and leading your human empires against each other, I could see handwaving everything that wasn't magical or wearing armor. Since the focus is to create an entire world, and indeed, possibly more than one world, it doesn't make any sense to just shrug off massive portions of it just because everyone wants to go for the juicy stuff first.))

((Rats are massive? Guppies are massive? Fungi are massive? Bugs are massive? Grass is massive? Bacteria are massive? All I'm basically asking that all be basic stuff needed to make regions work be assumed to exist and not require time, power, and effort to exist, because it's kinda silly to make a "forest" or "grassland" region if you need to make the trees, grass, and all the organisms needed to let them survive separately from the region itself.))

((You're complaining about them and insisting they're absolutely vital, so apparently so.

((If you define "massive" as "anything anyone cares about," then naturally you can point to anything someone asks for as being "massive".

All you're asking for is me to handwave everything you don't personally find interesting yet. What kind of grass or trees or vermin or diseases a place has can have a huge impact on all that interesting stuff that comes later.

((And why does every species have to be "interesting"?))

It's not silly to make a grassland area, because you can make the conditions favor grasses; more importantly, it's not silly to make separate, discrete regions with qualities you desire. What is silly is trying to make Schrodinger's Grasslands that have no concrete features beyond being grasslands, then trying to add interesting things to your generic quantum plains.))

((The problem is that this was apparently not clear, because people have been making regions with the assumption that basic species will be in place. This gets especially ludicrous in forests, but since most biomes are basically defined by flora, it's always an issue. If a desert region and a forest region look the same when first created, why bother distinguishing between the two before the plants are actually added?))

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 03:44:25 pm

((Really, what's so interesting about making rats, bacteria, and plants just so the world can actually survive? You want to know another reason no one's making these vital aspects of the ecosystem? They've only got a limited time in-game, and want to make something interesting. These little basic building blocks needed for a functioning ecosystem eat into the players' limited resources and don't benefit them.))

((Plenty of people have made or tried to make interesting plants already, so I'd say the answer is the same as everything else- you're creating something. If you don't find creating your own tribe just to have worshipers interesting, that aspect is going to be boring for you, sorry. If you're that set on it, figure out a way around it; otherwise, just create dung beetles or elves or a desert and get it over with.

((Plants aren't enough. Bugs aren't enough. Rats aren't enough. There are uncounted species on this earth, and they all interact in ways that are needed for the ecosystem to survive. Take out a few species here and there, and you don't completely ruin the ecosystem. If you have only a few (or even a few dozen), on the other hand, you're in trouble no matter what those few dozen are.))


((Again, I ask you: Why not make the basic, boring species, and if someone wants to add an "interesting" rat-niche creature or tree whatever, it can live there? Seriously, is it any fun to create a neat creature that promptly dies off because no ecosystem has been created yet?

And another consideration: Are these species being assumed to be there really so much worse than assuming there is a sun? You were fine with a huge glowing celestial body for free, why not some little species? Especially since it would be a lot less time- and Belief-consuming to make a star than all the little critters needed to make the world work.))



((Tiruin: My issue is basically that we have to spend time and whatnot describing each little creature we want to add, no matter how mundane or vital it is. Why? Why do we need to do that?))

Let's stick with On'Li for the name.

As for how to follow me: Have my prophet preach about the dangers of following such depraved deities as Zarut (or whoever the local deity is) and offer to cure anyone of maladies from such depravity.

Do so.

Drop harvested food (mine and the others if possible) into the cave

Retreat to the cave.

Bring more food

Half of the band retreats into the upper cave, watching the fyf.

Keep building that nest, using sticks and the rocks that are being thrown in.

Head into the cave to and help with the nest

The nest is improved.

Derp.
Attack predator!

Good thing I worked out the combat rules!
[3-1+1v4] Xom attempts to bite the mighty creature, but it moves out of the way!
[4v5-1] The fyfs turns its head and bites Xom! [6+4+6+3+10=29 damage] He is swallowed in a single gulp! Really, this was predictable.

0.3.3


-----

RIP Xom. Your death was easily avoidable.
Anyways. One less mouth to feed, right?

In the absence of any overwhelmingly powerful options and the presence of advice suggesting I just throw it together, I'll do that (perhaps with dice to some extent) once I finish my 2D Tribes update.

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on July 05, 2013, 03:26:54 pm

The world is good, but barren. Three species of animals and two of trees...almost no other notable plants...this must be fixed.

"Heh, nice to see you giving up on the moon, at least for the moment.

At some point, you just realize that you're unlikely to succeed.

You know, I actually had plans for my own moon at some point. Maybe even a planet, but nothin' fancy, just a domain a' my own, y'know? Trouble is, dunno how much power any a' that'd take and there's too much to be done on the ground still, heh."

Quite understandable. That image of moons is what drove us to try in the first place.

((Ah well.))