Bay 12 Games Forum

Quote from: GreatWyrmGold on April 01, 2014, 07:48:40 pm

Quote from: LeoLeonardoIII on April 01, 2014, 06:18:08 pm

EDIT: Also I think the choice of whether to buy or not should be in order of rolling, which has already been established. Just resolve turns in order. If two people land on an unbought card on the same turn, the first one will get first dibs on buying it, otherwise it goes to auction, and then the second lander must pay rent to whoever bought it. Which means me and GWG are kinda assed out but oh well, them's the breaks.

This makes sense. It's how real Monopoly is done.

Why not just make it a private auction between the two people who landed on it? Seems like the fairest rule.

1. Turn order is going to come up sooner or later. We might as well standardize it.
2. Auctions are broken when unregulated.

"Are you guys here for a reason or are you going to interupt me finding my friend?"
Kyle says with a roll of his eyes at the group.

They have a reason, and it seems to be attacking you.

Soldiers (25): All stats @5, no powers.
Demons (6): All stats @15, assorted elemental foci.

Five soldiers each, assorted guns: [32+5v2+11][46+5v27+11-2][30+5v34+11-4][37+5v25+11-6][28+5v9+11-8]
Two demons each, four physical two magic: [23+15v5+11-1][1+15v42+11-3][34+15v38+15-5]
A score of soldiers and a pair of demons hit Kyle. One demon trips and another trips over it.
[35+5v50+19][40+5v46+19][33+5v17+19][4+5v24+19] [8+15v40+19]
Kyle tanks the hits like a champ, but how much so...requires that I figure out how damage works. Um.
...
?

Luna attempts to freeze all of them in place, or cause them extreme pain, with soul magic.
((Taking the risk as the RNG God. Lets hope this works.))

I'll roll for this once everyone (including Conny) has stuff to do.

((Some pretty crappy rolls were rolled, so I kinda fast-forwarded through stuff. We don't really want another Selina incident.))

Alright. For April Fool's Day, I planned to make a crazy fake turn, with the real turn encoded into it, but then I got bored partway through the crazy fake turn this morning and didn't really feel like finishing it.
For the record, the statements at the top are all technically true. Anyways, here's what I had.

Kyle looks around the room and attempts to summon a cube of meat. That is evidently the best he can do, the idiot. Unfortunately, the summoning goes wrong; a fog smelling of blood fills the room, and out comes a demonic being, with a cube-headed mace, a long, thick neck, and a single eye.
"I am Willius the One-Eyed, of the Domain of Despair! Fall down before me, meat, and despair!"
Meanwhile, magic troubles are continuing above as well. Kuroe is the natural culprit, being the only other person who is doing magic. She tries to summon a lock or a lid, hoping to seal the box of illicit goods from the hands of the smugglers. This is not to be. Kuroe instead gets a curious metallic device with a button on it; naturally, she presses it. The device seems to summon some variety of divine metallic chariot of a circular variety. It bombards the warehouse with projectiles of a dull silvery metal; sadly, Kext and a couple soldiers are killed in the barrage. Out comes Willius, who waves its mace at the sky-chariot. The other survivors, lock and such forgotten, flee the scene. Willius discovers that its power is useless against the chariot; thus, it begins waving the mace at various people. The victims either die in weird contortions of flesh, or become monstrous. Meanwhile, the sky-chariot continues shooting things with the dull silver.
Finna glares at Kyle. "...Kyle. I don't recall you joining in the raid."
The prince arrives. "Shut your lid, Finna, this is not the time to be attacking each other." He looks around at the others. "Well, we should look on the bright side. This would be a perfect time to practice your abilities. Your objectives should be obvious. You need to seal that...um...flesh demon, and figure out a way to stop the sky-chariot before all that's left intact of this camp would fit in a matchbox. Alright? Good."
Selina feels that she may be out of her league. Kyle is mildly concerned about the state of the goods. That doesn't mean, however, that he's not worried about other things. The others in the group are a little excited, but mostly worried. What if these things are too strong? Thankfully, they're not alone. Soldiers are joining them to deal with Willius's monsters. Finna and even the prince, an excellent swordsman, are joining in.
The main characters survive; many of the others are killed by chunks of metal or are turned into monsters or gore. While the sky-chariot is mostly destroying things, Willius seems to be searching for something--but what? Well, there are other things to worry about. The chariot seems to have gotten bored and left, but the situation is about as bad as before. While the silvery projectiles are no longer being fired, the monsters directed by Willius continue to terrorize the camp, unhindered by the same.
"We need to hurry; by nightfall, there won't be left here," says Finna.
"I believe this is worse than the winter a couple years back."

A plan is hatched. Let's start with the first. It's an average task, so only typical modifiers apply. The end result for power is three; the control roll is two.

Kyle summons a roughly fist-sized chunk of meat.

"Um..." says one of the others. "I don't think that's very helpful..."

Next, Kuroe's lock. Or lid. Coin says lid, which is simple enough not to get special modifiers. She rolls a one for power, which means you got nothing.

Not much to say, especially with this format, which encourages laconic messages.

Now for the others' turns.

"Alright," says Finna. "They're not on the ground floor, so they're either above or below us. We'll start by checking above. We'll need a pair to guard the staircase. Any volunteers?"

I wonder who will get this. If you do, wait until tomorrow to tell and pretend that all that I wrote here is the real turn. Take it seriously; that should help me tell who saw the (obvious) message.

Are you going to threaten violence again and record it on tape (despite the fact that said violence would only occur if the tape was deleted)?

...
I may need to listen to it.

The idea is that, in order for me to survive, there has to be an unbroken chain of consciousness back to this point.

Ever hear of Last Tuesdayism? Short version, you have no way of knowing that there was a time before the now. It's an interesting philosophical concept. From such a perspective, it isn't hard to see why the concept of "an unbroken chain of consciousness" is kinda silly. How can you ever know if you are, say, the "real" Kriellya or a perfect clone thereof? (Assume that this is possible in your world.)
Any time that someone cannot ever prove that they are "real" is kinda silly and should be avoided.

In this framework, a clone is either the creation of a branch in this chain, and the nanosecond after you've created the clone it is no longer me, or a clone is the creation of an entirely different chain that happens to be completely identical up to the point of it's creation.

It's pretty clearly the branch, for the kind of clones we're talking about. After all, if Steve is cloned at t=0, then come t=10, both Steve and Steve' will have identical memories and experiences for negative time; any changes would have to be from t>0.
And with a branching path...well, which path is right, and which is wrong?

Either way, if you kill me, and end the original chain, I am done. I am not that clone. My experience will cease. And while, to the outside world, there will indeed be absolutely no difference, and the clone will be just as convinced as I was that it is me, I will be just as dead.

Guess what? You're dead. Like I've said, every cell in your body dies and is replaced every couple weeks. You're already gone. And if you're not defining yourself by your body, or by your experiences and personality, what are you defining it by?
Some kind of undefinable spirit or soul? But then, how do you know that your spirit didn't leave your body already, or your soul enter your clone? It's inherently unreasonable to reach for something so undefinable in a debate about definition.

If he is "reset" to the same state, doesn't that mean he loses all the points he gained from level ups?

Quote from: Piecewise

...his mind goes back and he returns to the way he was at the time of death...

If that extract was referring to his first death, then Grate would lose all his stat ups, modifications, implantation and gained skills every single time he dies.

...
Well, crap. Grate's never becoming useful.

But how does that make sense in this context?
"Y'know, that thing with Grate."
"You mean his rampant uselessness?"
"No, when he dies."
"Oh.  Got it."
That's far more painless than our discussion.  Even more painless if you put 'death' in the first sentence.  Hence, I said that the discussion causes more pain than the problem.
I'll admit that not knowing the name of a rose is fairly confusing though.

The problem is, we're not talking about Grate, we're talking about his immortality.

Oddly enough, the first time I encountered that problem was with Autoduel, an old C64 game that had nothing to do with philosophy.

...?

To me, the important aspect is that I be able to draw a straight line from my current experience to my original experience. A clone is a break in this line, and as such would not qualify as being 'me'. The nanosecond it has a different experience to me (or 'as soon as it is created'), it has diverged in an unrecoverable means. It is no longer me in a way that I feel is fundamental.

And in that nanosecond, the you you consider you has diverged approximately equally from the "you" you were.
And guess what? The kind of clone we're talking about can also draw a straight line from his current experience to the original experience. Why is your claim on that line better than the clone's?

And on the hardware front, our brain's are not static objects. Not by a long shot. The data and the hardware does define me. It is all that I am. (as far as we know) As I change, so does it. As it changes, so do I.

Then why can't the clone change without being considered not you?

[L]et's consider something. See, I'm going to define me very precisely, as a specific configuration of atoms with a very specific location and vector in spacetime. Now, what I'm not going to include in this is that I be a configuration of *specific* atoms. I can be any atoms you want, as long as those atoms are identical and placed in the configuration as specified.

And therefore you will be dead, because the atoms in your current body are not the ones that were in your body a year or two ago, let alone the ones which were in your body when you were born.
And let's not get started on the issues with changing your location or velocity without becoming someone else.

In fact, it gives you precisely one way to do so: to replace all of the atoms in the configuration with identical atoms, without changing their configuration, location, or vector.

...Isn't that basically what Grate does?

If you try and create a clone in any other fashion, I will say that he is not me.

And he will be entirely justified in saying that you are not you.

We will be the same in every way, except for one: he will be experiencing the world from 3 feet to the left. Or right. Or 10 seconds after my demise. Whatever configuration we imagine doing this in. And this might seem insignificant, but I can think of nothing more fundamentally different about two individuals.

And how is this different from you moving three feet to the side, or waiting ten seconds?

I would say yes. The continuity of experience (or, occasionally, existence) of the brain is the important thing to me, not the 'jar'.

What about if you copied the consciousness into a computer?

((It's April Fool's Day. I implied that you waited until then intentionally.))

I have returned.

You all may shoot and/or punch me in the crotch now.

Nah.
On that note, did you see the game based on shooting me in the face? I'm running it now.

btw elf, don't forget to give loki and andi actions. YOu know how GWG is, he wont proceed before everyone gave their moves

You say that like it's a bad thing.

So did anything else of note happen, in addition to the new characters, or did Mal and his second lover (Lyle will be pissed) have a two hundred page long affair?

Will was rescued. Nuriel is still working for Seham.

No ever mentions the creation thing though

I've been mentioning it whenever it came up ever since I learned about it!

The only demons that are still close to void entities are the very, very first demons, the first generation. Of course, hardly any of those remain. All other demons are born in creation

I'm pretty sure all demons are a mix of both.

Quote from: IamanElfCollaborator on April 01, 2014, 01:15:13 pm

((Why can't it be extroverted magic lesbians for once?))

((Maria doesn't count?))

She might, if she was ever around.

"U-uum.."

Rachel and Lyle are in a possibly compromising position.

Not very monk-y of Kayla.

Also, dragons are not playable.

Which is sad.

This looks rather interesting.  I rolled a bit for the Lifeline, more out of curiosity, and received a freedman with an urban forest background, apprenticeship in finance, and an inheritance of an old keep.  My immediate thought was to finish building the character as an orcish lawyer.  I...think I may have gone off on a bit of an odd tangent with this. ^_^

I like the way you're thinking.